just curious

[GrannyGumbo]

This is the first time I've seen you use the disclaimer "and its ancestors before that"[BrianT]

"Then you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying.

 

[ChristianCynic]

Originally posted by bro. coley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ChristianCynic:

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. {Romans 3:4, KJV}

The error is at the beginning. The phrase is 'May it not be;' not "God forbid." The name of God is NOT in the text.

My apologies I had to leave the discussion on Sunday night and have been in meetings. Please sir, explain by what standards do you conclude the errors. Thanks.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]It was already explained. The name of God is not in the Greek texts; it is in the KJ translation. It is in error to insert the name of God into a statement to give it perceived strength-- even though most people do it.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
This is the first time I've seen you use the disclaimer "and its ancestors before that"[BrianT]

"Then you haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying.

Then please say it again, plainly, just for me: do you mean previous editions of the KJV (1611, 1613, 1629, etc. down to the 1762 and 1769 editions), or do you mean the translations prior to the KJV (Geneva, Tyndale, Bishop's, Great, Rheims, Wycliffe, etc., etc.)?

 

[bro. coley]

Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bro. coley:
I would be happy to discuss the issues with you concerning doctrinal errors of the King James Bible and/or discussions concerning the inspiration of scriptures (KJB).

Bro. Coley,

Are you going to explain how my comments on 1 Tim 6:10 and Isa 45:7 are out of context?

Your comments are answered on page one. I feel this will clear up your misinterpretation on I Timothy 6:10 and Isa 45:7. Ain't this fun?

By the way, does it not seem strange to you that all of the discussions are over the accuracy of one book?

We discuss many books here. Sometimes we discuss the accuracy of the KJV, because some make a claim for it that elevates it beyond what many of us think is truthful.

The Bible says in Proverbs 23:7 - "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: ect...."
Also, just curious - what is your opinion of Peter Ruckman?


God bless,
Brian</font>[/QUOTE]I love his Lord and would hate to debate him on Bible subjects. Have I given you enough information to classify me?

[ July 21, 2002, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: bro. coley ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
Brian I think you are mistaken I have Rheims(English) from Vulgate(Jesuit Bible of 1582)... Not the lineage of the KJV 1611( from the Received Text)... Is this correct Doc Cas?... Brother Glen

The Rheims had some influence on the KJV translators, even thought it wasn't a "TR" translation. Many of the readings in the KJV come directly from the Rheims.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Ya know what, BrianT? I've been praying that the Lord would give you peace about all this, but I think I'm going to ask Him to give you no peace until you get it settled in your heart.

My mind is just boggled by all the things I have encountered on this Board. Great truths of the Word of God have been changed beyond recognition.

"EVEN SO, COME, LORD JESUS"!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Great truths of the Word of God have been changed beyond recognition.

Where?

 

[KJVTIM]

Originally posted by ChristianCynic:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KJVTIM:
The KJV only contains errors if you are a bible corrector. It is best just to read the Bible(KJV) and not rewrite it.Deut.4:2, Pro.30:6, Rev.22:18-19.

Them KJV rewriters of the centuries-old Bible just didn't git that there lesson learned, did they?

BTW, 'KJVTIM,' are you a disc jockey and that's your name on the air?</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by bro. coley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bro. coley:
it is the root of all evil in the subject matter that Paul is discussing. stay in the context of the passage and rightly devide the word of truth 2 Tim.2:15

It is one thing to say I'm wrong, and another to explain how I'm wrong. Please, go ahead.</font>[/QUOTE]My explanation is simple, You must rightly divide the word of truth. Everything in God's word is written for you but it is not all written to you. There are three beings that speak in God's word. God, who never lies, man, who sometimes lies, and satan who frequently lies. Likewise, there are only three groups that are spoken to. These are the jews, the gentiles and the church. In the subject matter of the "love of money" you must read the entire chapter, if you do not understand that Paul is speaking concerning church age doctrine, then I can understand how easily one would be deceived to misinterpret the word of God. Paul says in I Timothy chapter 6:8
"and having food and rainment, let (us) be therewith content." Verse 9 - "but (they) that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lust, which draw men in destruction and perdition." WHY? verse 10 - "for the love of money is the root of all evil: ect...." Paul is speaking to Timothy verse 11 - "but thou, O man of God, ect..." and is giving instruction to the church. Please let the Bible say what it says and not what we want it to say. In the context Paul is not dealing with rape, pride, ect...., but with riches.</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry, but that doesn't explain things. You talk about the context, but you haven't explained how the context means that the love of money isn't "the" root of "all" evil. You are trying to make it passage say the love of money is "a root of all kinds of evil related to riches". Why does the text say "all" when you are telling me it really means "some"? Let the Bible says what it says, and not what you want it to say.

I asked: what is your opinion of Peter Ruckman? You answered:

I love his Lord and would hate to debate him on Bible subjects. Have I given you enough information to classify me?

I am not trying to classify you. But you didn't really answer the question.

No matter.

 

[KJVTIM]

No, I am not a disc jockey.However, I do preach on radio station WYEA AM 1290 on Sunday mornings.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
[QB]Ya know what, BrianT? I've been praying that the Lord would give you peace about all this, but I think I'm going to ask Him to give you no peace until you get it settled in your heart.

Thanks for your prayers, Granny. But I already have peace about this subject. A great peace, and a full assurance.

I simply don't understand why you refuse to answer simple, direct questions. Instead, you try to portray me as tainted spiritually. Thanks for your concern, but it is very obvious you are avoiding things.

My mind is just boggled by all the things I have encountered on this Board. Great truths of the Word of God have been changed beyond recognition.

For example?

 

[bro. coley]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bro. coley:
Pastor Larry, I would be happy to discuss the issues with you concerning doctrinal errors of the King James Bible

[/q b]I have no discussion to have about doctrinal errors of the KJV. (It is a "Version" not a "Bible" according to the title page found in each copy.) You will have to find someone else to have this discussion with.

I did not realize "not a Bible" was used by the writers or was this your translation?

[qb]and/or discussions concerning the inspiration of scriptures (KJB).

Again, the Scriptures are inspired (God breathed, 2 Tim 3:16). Any faithful translation partakes of inspiration.
If you are suggesting that all versions are inspired because they contain some of God's words let me say that dog food is used to make rat poison but I would not feed it to my dog.

Please give me your standards by which you conclude errors in the KJV.

Its level of conformity to the original language texts. There are different issues however. There is a level of interpretational difference which is not an "error" per se. II Peter 1:20 - "Knowing this first, that no phrophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." There are mistranslations where the KJV does not say what the original language text says (e.g. Heb 10:23 where elpis (hope) is mistranslated as "faith" (pistis). There are places where the KJV is based on questionable textual basis which constitutes a textual difference (e.g. 1 John 5:7) where the KJV follows an extreme minority of textual witnesses.

By the way, does it not seem strange to you that all of the discussions are over the accuracy of one book?

Only in the sense that it is so far fetched that it is amazing that anyone believes it. As fundamentalists have always believed, there is no one perfect translation. It would be a theological impossibility unless God 'were pleased to perform a perpetual miracle' (as Gray put it in the fundamentals).</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[bro. coley]

Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bro. coley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bro. coley:
it is the root of all evil in the subject matter that Paul is discussing. stay in the context of the passage and rightly devide the word of truth 2 Tim.2:15

It is one thing to say I'm wrong, and another to explain how I'm wrong. Please, go ahead.</font>[/QUOTE]My explanation is simple, You must rightly divide the word of truth. Everything in God's word is written for you but it is not all written to you. There are three beings that speak in God's word. God, who never lies, man, who sometimes lies, and satan who frequently lies. Likewise, there are only three groups that are spoken to. These are the jews, the gentiles and the church. In the subject matter of the "love of money" you must read the entire chapter, if you do not understand that Paul is speaking concerning church age doctrine, then I can understand how easily one would be deceived to misinterpret the word of God. Paul says in I Timothy chapter 6:8
"and having food and rainment, let (us) be therewith content." Verse 9 - "but (they) that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lust, which draw men in destruction and perdition." WHY? verse 10 - "for the love of money is the root of all evil: ect...." Paul is speaking to Timothy verse 11 - "but thou, O man of God, ect..." and is giving instruction to the church. Please let the Bible say what it says and not what we want it to say. In the context Paul is not dealing with rape, pride, ect...., but with riches.</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry, but that doesn't explain things. You talk about the context, but you haven't explained how the context means that the love of money isn't "the" root of "all" evil. You are trying to make it passage say the love of money is "a root of all kinds of evil related to riches". Why does the text say "all" when you are telling me it really means "some"? Let the Bible says what it says, and not what you want it to say.
BrianT if I said " all church members please be present tonight for a meeting would this include your church?" Hardly, but for only those members at my local church. Nevertheless, there is no evil in this church age that will not have money somewhere as its root. I did not say this, God did, so I will just take HIs word and believe it. It would be wise for you to do the same. If there is a problem in the text of the KJV the problem is man not God. I asked: what is your opinion of Peter Ruckman? You answered:

I love his Lord and would hate to debate him on Bible subjects. Have I given you enough information to classify me?

I am not trying to classify you. But you didn't really answer the question.

No matter.</font>[/QUOTE]So what was the purpose of the question? If you would like to discuss any issues with Dr. Ruckman he will at our church on October 4,5,and 6. In Christ, Bro. Coley

 

[KEVO]

GRANNYGUMBO, You tell em like it is sister!!. I know exactly what you are talking about. You know what granny,you have a final authority,so do I,so does kjvtim,so does bro.Coley. Most of these people in here don't have a final authority. They want to take God's Word and destroy it. I wonder sometimes if this is the baptist board or the catholic board,or the methodist board,or the church of God board.Wait until you start talking doctrine with them,that is when the wheels really run off.

 

[bro. coley]

Originally posted by ChristianCynic:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bro. coley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ChristianCynic:

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. {Romans 3:4, KJV}

The error is at the beginning. The phrase is 'May it not be;' not "God forbid." The name of God is NOT in the text.

My apologies I had to leave the discussion on Sunday night and have been in meetings. Please sir, explain by what standards do you conclude the errors. Thanks.</font>[/QUOTE]It was already explained. The name of God is not in the Greek texts; it is in the KJ translation. It is in error to insert the name of God into a statement to give it perceived strength-- even though most people do it.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Sir, are you saying that the greek text is the final authority, if so would there be any errors in much of the greek text when it was translated from the Hebrew? Just curious.
Because we know that many of the writers in the greek text quoted old testament Hebrew

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by bro. coley:
if I said " all church members please be present tonight for a meeting would this include your church?" Hardly, but for only those members at my local church.

That context I understand. I do not understand how that analogy applies to 1 Tim 6:10.

Nevertheless, there is no evil in this church age that will not have money somewhere as its root.

Do you mean "the love of money"?

I did not say this, God did, so I will just take HIs word and believe it. It would be wise for you to do the same. If there is a problem in the text of the KJV the problem is man not God.

Well, there's a circular argument.

We are discussing if in fact God really said this, or if the the KJV translators ("the problem is man") could have translated this better, the way other versions do. I wonder, if this phrase was switched between the KJV and NIV, would not the NIV be in error for saying "the" root of "all" evil? Or if Isa 45:7 were switched, would it not be condemned by KJV-only supporters for saying God creates evil? I think it probably would be, and most strenuously.

So what was the purpose of the question? If you would like to discuss any issues with Dr. Ruckman he will at our church on October 4,5,and 6. In Christ, Bro. Coley

Well, seeing as I'm not even in the same country, I doubt I'll make it.

Why is he coming to your church?

Brian

 

[bro. coley]

Originally posted by KEVO:
GRANNYGUMBO, You tell em like it is sister!!. I know exactly what you are talking about. You know what granny,you have a final authority,so do I,so does kjvtim,so does bro.Coley. Most of these people in here don't have a final authority. They want to take God's Word and destroy it. I wonder sometimes if this is the baptist board or the catholic board,or the methodist board,or the church of God board.Wait until you start talking doctrine with them,that is when the wheels really run off.

This message is for Kevo, KJVTim and Granny - II Cor. 2:17 - " For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as of God in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
Goodnight and God Bless - Bro. Coley

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by KEVO:
GRANNYGUMBO, You tell em like it is sister!!.

Yes, Granny, please tell us.

They want to take God's Word and destroy it.

I was just going to say "you're wrong", but I think I'll make it a bit stronger: you're lying.

I wonder sometimes if this is the baptist board or the catholic board,or the methodist board,or the church of God board.

I don't wonder. It says "Baptist Board" at the top of every page.

Wait until you start talking doctrine with them,that is when the wheels really run off.

Yes, tell Granny about your Ruckmanism doctrines.

I'm sure she'd like to know about other KJV-onlyists out there.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by bro. coley:
This message is for Kevo, KJVTim and Granny - II Cor. 2:17 - " For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as of God in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

This message is also for Kevo, KJVTim and Granny (and Bro. Coley too, and everyone): 2 Cor 3:6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

Brian

 

[KEVO]

Attention,attention all moderators!!BRIANT said I was lying.Is that not a personal attack? I believe I got suspended for calling Larry a fool.There is DR.Ruckman's name again.Live and in person at Victory Baptist Church, Oct.4-6.