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just HOW Do You see God Handling "problem" of Those Who NEVER Heard About Jesus?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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Greektim
Well-Known Member
They're all w/out excuse
There is no problem. Every human being has been given the light (John 1:9), Creation (Romans 1), God's law written on their heart (Romans 2:14-15), the desire to live beyond this present life (Ecclesiastes 3:11), and having been placed in the perfect location and place within time to seek Him (Acts 17:26-27)
Like Greektim said...they are most definitely without excuse!
So you would see ALL of them lost, going to hell then?
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
No one at the great white throne judgement will have an excuse. There will be no "God made me do it" or, "the devil made me do it" Everyone is responsible for there own rebellion.
MB
If they exchanged the truth presented to them that I outlined above for a lie, God is not obligated by any means to present them the Gospel.
So A calvinist might be able to say that God will make sure to get the message in some fashion to his elected out ones, in order for them to be able to place faith in jesus...that he will quicken them renwew them in order to receive message he will get out to them...
If one is an Arminian, have no real hope assurance that Any of these people will get saved?
Take Romans 1:20 and add Matt 13:12 and you have your answer.
Matthew 13:12 For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even what he has.
Also:
John 1:9 That was the true Light, that lights every man that comes into the world.
God has revealed Himself to every man through creation and the conscience (knowledge of right and wrong). Anyone desiring to know more will be given more knowledge by God.
I've heard many stories of missionaries that have gone to remote parts of the world to be told by people they witnessed to that they had prayed to God (creator) for answers. God will provide anyone the chance to be redeemed if only they seek Him.
Matthew 13:12 For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even what he has.
Also:
John 1:9 That was the true Light, that lights every man that comes into the world.
God has revealed Himself to every man through creation and the conscience (knowledge of right and wrong). Anyone desiring to know more will be given more knowledge by God.
I've heard many stories of missionaries that have gone to remote parts of the world to be told by people they witnessed to that they had prayed to God (creator) for answers. God will provide anyone the chance to be redeemed if only they seek Him.
Not sure which people you are referring to.
As a non-cal, non-arm I am quite confident the Gospel will be presented to everyone God intends it to be presented to.
Just curious, which "camp" do you see yourself in, if neither Arminian/calvinist?
Soteriologically speaking, I side closer to the Free Grace perspective (although that term is redundant).
just curious...
cals/Arms also see it as being "free Grace"
What do you hold to that neither camp would hold to?
Tom Butler
New Member
Here's my take on the OP.
Paul, in Romans 2 says a couple of things that I think are key.
In 2:14, Paul says those who don't have the law are a law unto themselves.
He also says that the law is written on their hearts. What does that mean?
I th8nki it means that all of us have a sense of right and wrong--a moral code. Those who have never heard the gospel will be judged on how they have kept their own moral code--and of course, they will acknowledge that they have not kept it, and willfully broke it. That is the basis for their condemnation.
They cannot be condemned for rejecting Jesus, of whom they have never heard. They have never been presented with the claims of the gospel.
There are some who have argued on this board that they must have heard the gospel, some way, somehow. If that is the case, then let's call home all our missionaries, for God has provided another way of salvation without the preaching of the gospel. If this is the case, then let's not take a chance that someone may hear the gospel and reject it.
I know, looking at creation gives evidence of a creator, so yes, they are without excuse. But creation doesn't tell them about Jesus, so we have to look for another basis for their condemnation. That's what I think I've done.
Paul, in Romans 2 says a couple of things that I think are key.
In 2:14, Paul says those who don't have the law are a law unto themselves.
He also says that the law is written on their hearts. What does that mean?
I th8nki it means that all of us have a sense of right and wrong--a moral code. Those who have never heard the gospel will be judged on how they have kept their own moral code--and of course, they will acknowledge that they have not kept it, and willfully broke it. That is the basis for their condemnation.
They cannot be condemned for rejecting Jesus, of whom they have never heard. They have never been presented with the claims of the gospel.
There are some who have argued on this board that they must have heard the gospel, some way, somehow. If that is the case, then let's call home all our missionaries, for God has provided another way of salvation without the preaching of the gospel. If this is the case, then let's not take a chance that someone may hear the gospel and reject it.
I know, looking at creation gives evidence of a creator, so yes, they are without excuse. But creation doesn't tell them about Jesus, so we have to look for another basis for their condemnation. That's what I think I've done.
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The Bible tells us in Titus 2:11, "for the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men." This and the other aforementioned verses tell me that no one who stands before the throne of judgment someday will have the "I never heard" excuse.
Not the same thing. Google Free Grace Alliance and Grace Evangelical Society.
I have several books published by the late Zane Hodges and had the opportunity to speak to him personally twice over the phone. He definitely had insight into the Word of God that the average Southern Baptist lacks.
Alive in Christ
New Member
There is no problem.
In the gosple of John the scriptures tell us that Christ gives "light" to every man that comes into the world. And its obvious that He is not talking about the sun coming up every day.
He is clearly referring to spiritual revelation.
There is the Light of creation.
There is the Light of conscience
And there is any additional Light that He might grant.
Our God is all powerfull, and He has everything at His disposal, from the expanse of the universe to the tinyest cell.
The ones who lived thier entire life outside of the reach of the Gosple have indeed "heard"
God loves them, and will save them, if they choose wisely.
Just like us who have heard.
Tom Butler
New Member
gloopey1 said:
How does that work? And why are we sending missionaries? How did they become aware of sin, judgment, Hell, and Jesus' death, burial and resurrection?
The Gospel IS the chosen agent/means by which He has elected to have His saints receive Jesus Christ and Eternal Life....
God places burden on his Body on the earth to go out and preach/teach to all, so that SOME might come to faith and believe in the name of His Son jesus...
NONE will have any excuse...
isn't that the lament of many Arminians, that God is unjuist/cruel in that he deals unfairly with people, everyone not giving "same chance?"
Alive in Christ
New Member
Tom...
Regarding the judgement of those who never heard the gosple of Jesus Christ, you asked...
Beautifully.
You dont know?
Because we have a great treasure to share with people!! The Gospel of Jesus Christ!!
What?? They havent heard of the death, burial and ressurection of Christ, Tom. Thats the whole point. :wavey:
Do you actually think that God is going to condemn millions to hell for rejecting a message that the never heard!
C'mon, Tom. Put your thinking cap on.
Since they never heard the gosple, they will be fairly judged by the revelation, or "light" that they DID recieve.
The Light of concience, and the Light nature, and any other revelation God might choose to give them.
Regarding the judgement of those who never heard the gosple of Jesus Christ, you asked...
Beautifully.
You dont know?
Because we have a great treasure to share with people!! The Gospel of Jesus Christ!!
What?? They havent heard of the death, burial and ressurection of Christ, Tom. Thats the whole point. :wavey:
Do you actually think that God is going to condemn millions to hell for rejecting a message that the never heard!
C'mon, Tom. Put your thinking cap on.
Since they never heard the gosple, they will be fairly judged by the revelation, or "light" that they DID recieve.
The Light of concience, and the Light nature, and any other revelation God might choose to give them.