Just how inspired is the Bible?

[Bro. David]

TOTALLY is 'right' Helen. Either we have God's Word or we do NOT. No 'fence riding', no maybes! All the Bible - no verses, passages, chapters, or Books are more 'inspired' than any other part in the Bible. That is the trouble with society today - everybody wants Christianity 'their way' - sort of like the hamburgers! Same way with the Word, seems everybody would like a private interpretation, all their own, their way. Seems like the Holy Spirit warned us through Paul about those 'private interpretations' didn't he?

 

[Humblesmith]

You are correct. My favorite 'equivocation' one is:

1. Bob is a heavy smoker.
2. That chair can't hold heavy things.
3. That chair can't hold Bob.

Clearly, 'heavy' here has changed meanings. So you are correct. As long as we don't change the meanings of the terms in mid-stream. Which, unforntunately, is what happens far too often.

But getting back to inspiration, I tend to agree with Bro. David. No fence riding.....either it's inspired, or it's not. We can't have a "partially inspired" scripture.

 

[Bro. David]

Paul warned us there was coming a day when men would not endure 'sound doctrine'. The Bible is the soundest of Doctrines for It is the very Word of God! Ever hear of the 'domino effect'? If one were able to prove a 'lesser degree' of inspiration for any portion of Scripture than the rest, then they would have just succeeded in toppling ALL of Scripture. Peter continued this line of reasoning when the Holy Spirit wrote through him; II Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Vs. 21 brings us back to our original topic; "The Inspiration of Holy Writ". If only the Original Autographs were inspired we are in a world of hurt! Because none of them exist today, do they? Can the copies of the originals be considered to be 'inspired'. Sure they can! If they are copied in the same language as the Autographs, and then without error. I stop short of saying that Translations can be inspired, but I ask; "Could not, nay rather, did not God 'intervene' to bring His Word over to our common language?" It is certain He did, because there are too many promises in Scripture where God said He WOULD 'preserve' his Word!!!
Again, either we have God's Word or we do not! Pick a side!!!!!!!
Again, "Bravo Helen" TOTALLY, I totally like that!!!!!!!

 

[Artimaeus]

H7225
ראשׁית
rê'shîyth
ray-sheeth'
From the same as H7218; the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.

THROUGH

G281
ἀμήν
amēn
am-ane'
Of Hebrew origin [H543]; properly firm, that is, (figuratively) trustworthy; adverbially surely (often as interjection so be it): - amen, verily.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Well I am glad to see that most folks agree on the full inspiration of the Bible.Why would God give us a partially inspired Bible?

 

[rjprince]

OldReg,

We agree on this one.


All,

Totally and perfectly inspired, faithfully, but not perfectly preserved. That ought to rattle a few cages, but the only other option is KJVO or NASBO, et al.

 

[Bro. David]

Question for rjprince;
You state, and I quote; "Totally and perfectly inspired, faithfully, but not perfectly preserved. That ought to rattle a few cages, but the only other option is KJVO or NASBO, et al."
You say scripture is perfectly inspired. I agree. But what was inspired? Were only the Autographs inspired? If only the Autographs were inspired then I must pose a question; "Why didn't God then 'perfectly preserve them?" God places only one thing above His Name, and that is His Word, Psalms 138:2. God did indeed inspire His Word, He does esteem it higher than His Name, so we must ask; "If God did NOT preserve His Word, WHY?"
ONE - God was unable. Nobody here believes that for a moment. God is the Sovereign of the Universe! God is God, He does HIS good pleasure.
TWO - God was unwilling. I do not believe anyone here believes that either! God's Word is settled forever in Heaven, Psalms 119:89. Being settled in heaven does not necessarily mean settled here on earth, but I wonder. God's Word is His Love letter to His children - to us, for us - we need It! Would God not 'settle' His Word for His Children by 'preserving' what He has alredy given by inspiration and has esteemed so highly. It is quite certain He has, it is just as certain He will! God preserves you and I doesn't He?
We could all argue Greek, Hebrew, Text, MSS., until the cows come home, what good is that! We would all come away bloody, hurt and with seeds of doubt scattered about in our very finite little brains - no good, just hurt! See that word 'doubt', well, that is what Satan is all about! Most of the modern scholars(?) only achieve Satan's number one goal, and that is to make the children of God doubt their Bibles!
R J, I came to this forum to learn and to share, not to argue - please don't think I am picking on you, I am just addressing your doubt of the preservation of God's Word. Pick up your Bible, embrace It, study It for what It is - the Word of God!
One more thing before I go. I am a 'God Called Preacher'. Preachers are given seven charges in the Word of God, one of them is: "II Tim. 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." You see, if God did NOT preserve his Word, and if the Bible we hold in our hands is NOT the infallible, inerrant
Word of God, then I have nothing to Preach! Neither do we have anything to dicuss, there is no reason for this forum, no reason for our Churches, no basis for our very Faith, because Faith comes how, and that hearing how?
Plain Old Bill asked the question; "Just how inspired is your Bible?" We must all answer that in our own heart, not over the Internet. Either we have the Word of God in our hands, in a language we can read and study, or we do not. I believe we do!!! God's Word came into being because of His 'inspiration', God's Word still exists because of His 'preservation'!
Love in Christ, Bro. David Heb. 7:25

[ September 20, 2005, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: Bro. David ]

 

[Humblesmith]

Is every copy preserved 100%? No printer ever accidently made a mistake?

 

[Gold Dragon]

The Chicago Statement of Inerrancy has this to say about autographs, transmission and translation.

Bible Researcher : Chicago Statment of Inerrancy
...

Article X.
WE AFFIRM that inspiration, strictly speaking, applies only to the autographic text of Scripture, which in the providence of God can be ascertained from available manuscripts with great accuracy. We further affirm that copies and translations of Scripture are the Word of God to the extent that they faithfully represent the original.

WE DENY that any essential element of the Christian faith is affected by the absence of the autographs. We further deny that this absence renders the assertion of Biblical inerrancy invalid or irrelevant.
...
Exposition
...
Transmission and Translation

Since God has nowhere promised an inerrant transmission of Scripture, it is necessary to affirm that only the autographic text of the original documents was inspired and to maintain the need of textual criticism as a means of detecting any slips that may have crept into the text in the course of its transmission. The verdict of this science, however, is that the Hebrew and Greek text appear to be amazingly well preserved, so that we are amply justified in affirming, with the Westminster Confession, a singular providence of God in this matter and in declaring that the authority of Scripture is in no way jeopardized by the fact that the copies we possess are not entirely error-free.
...

 

[Bro. David]

Let's see what God himself thought about the 'Autographs'. In Jeremiah chapter 36 we find out.
Baruch, the scribe, was called to read the scroll. As Baruch read the people were afraid. (Any
fear now when we read our Bibles? The scholars(?), those afraid to take a stand, and the
wonderful, glorious, stupendous 'textual critics' have utterly destroyed any confidence the people
have in our Bibles!) Lest we get off track - back to our story. The people who heard the Word of
God went to the king and told him. The king also desired to hear these words. The king wasn't
too impressed, he cut the scroll up and burned the entire thing. OH NO! An Autograph, an
inspired autograph - sent to the flames! Note - God did NOT intervene to save that autograph.
What did God do, He commanded Jeremiah to take another scroll, give it to Baruch, and have
Baruck to copy down Jeremiah's words - AH HA 'Preservation through Inspiration', not through
the original autographs!
Now to Acts chapter 8. When Phillip approached the Ethiopian eunuch he was aghast! This poor
eunch was reading only a COPY of Isaiah - Phillip ran as fast as he could. Phillip then began a
discourse of textual critism, pointing out all the errors in the document. The eunch was
astounded at the knowledge Phillip expounded! He was so astounded that he went away
confused, dischanted, and threw his copy of Isaiah away! NO, NO, NO!!! The Bible says that the
COPY the eunch read WAS Scripture, vs 32. Phillip never questioned the Authority nor the
Inspiration of this document, but instead used it to preach Jesus to this fellow, again this Copy is
called Scripture, vs 35.
We jump ahead several years. When Paul was moved to write to Timothy he said, "And that
from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,...". Did Timothy have any Old Testament
Autographs - NO! What did he have? COPIES! What did Paul call these copies? SCRIPTURE!
So we have 'Preservation through Copies'
When Paul spoke in his defence against the mob at Jerusalem, what language did he speak in?
He spoke in Hebrew, Acts 21:40; 22:2. Luke, no God, preserved for us what Paul said in Acts
chapter 22. But Luke wrote in Greek! Oh well, another chapter of Scripture bites the dust,
(because we have all been trained to understand any Translation can never be inspired), or does
it? Could God be so powerful that He could preserve His Word even into another language? He
IS and He DID! 'Preservation through Translation'.
Again, the question that started this discussion was; "Just how inspired is your Bible?". I pose the
question again for you like this; "The Bible you hold in your hand, is It God's Word, or is It not?"
Not once, I repeat, not once, did our Master or any of His Apostles use such terminology as;
"This would better be rendered..."; "The older and best MSS read..."; "We find here a slight
error......"; NOT ONCE!!! People who 'surf-the-net' and come across this page, I wonder, are they
left with the feeling that we believe the Bible to actually be the Word of God or are they made to
doubt? Paul spoke about some who promoted a heresy about the resurrection overthrowing the
faith of some. I wonder how many have had their faith overthrown by the modern scholars(?),
the 'textual critics', and the nay-sayers who cast away Scripture just because they don't
understand it? I shall be a part of no such foolishness!
When we stand before Christ to give an answer, we can not call on any 'Confession or Article of
Faith', we must, each person, answer to Christ individually. Either we are covered by the Blood
or we are not! Scripture will endure forever, I Peter 1:25, how will you answer Christ about His
Word? "Yes Master, I believed and promoted your Word!", or will you hang your head and say,
"I really didn't believe.". Either we promote the Word of God or we promote doubt, which will it
be?
No, God does not promote error by preservation, He corrects error by intervention and
preservation. God intervenes in the doings of man to preserve His Word. Did God's Inspiration
disappear along with the last scrap of the last autograph? I think not! Are we left without the
Word of God, only to wonder and speculate about what God really said? I think not! Are we to
cast doubt on the Word because Dr. So-In-So has an ego much larger than his brain? Again, I
think not!
We are called to Preach the Word, to embrace It, to Love It, to Promote It!
"Just how inspired is your Bible?" The One you hold in your hand, the One you study, the one
you read from, the One you witness from - not the autographs, not the ancient copies, not what
some other man says about It - but again "Just how inspired is YOUR Bible?". My statement of faith concerning my Bible; "I hold in my hand the very Word of God!" What is YOUR statement of faith about YOUR Bible?
Love in Christ, Bro. David Heb. 7:25

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Amen Bro. David Preach it.

 

[Humblesmith]

Wow, gee, I....uh......gosh. That clears that up, now doesn't it?

Elhanen really did kill Goliath in 2 Sam. 21:19. Somehow I got the idea David did. Silly me.

Thanks for clearing it up, Bro'.

 

[Bro. David]

"...the brother of...", 'Preservation by correction'
Point well made Humblesmith

 

[Bro. David]

Thanks Bro. Bill, the Lord Bless and Keep you!

 

[Plain Old Bill]

And you too my Bro.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Bro. David: //My statement of
faith concerning my Bible; "I hold in my hand
the very Word of God!" What is YOUR statement
of faith about YOUR Bible?//

I hold a HCSB = Holman Christian Standard Bible (Holman, 2003)
in my hand saying "I hold in my hand the very Word of God!"
But when you say the same words, i have NO IDEA which Bible
you are holding in your hand. Please tell me which Bible, which
translation, which version, which edition. I probably have one
like it, if you will describe it. Thank you.

Now, back to the discussion of this Topic. How do you know
what your Bible means?. What are the resources you use to change
the words past the sounds into action?

That is what i think this Topic is about, maybe???

Are we to cling to the priests who only can tell us how to
include the very Written Words of God into our life?
Are we to do it the Baptist way - every man/woman/and child
for themselves?

Bro. David: //Seems like the Holy Spirit warned us through Paul about
those 'private interpretations' didn't he?//

Actually he didn't, at least not like i suspect you understand it.
The real meaning of that passage is that God didn't give His Holy Written
Word with parts for one person only - every part is for every person.

Now, back to the discussion of this Topic. How do you know
what your Bible means?. What are the resources you use to change
the words past the sounds into action?

That is what i think this Topic is about, probably???

Bro. David: "(Any fear now when we read our Bibles?
The scholars(?),
those afraid to take a stand, and the
wonderful, glorious, stupendous 'textual critics'
have utterly destroyed any confidence the people
have in our Bibles!)"

Where did you get this misinformation? Unless it comes from the
Bible it is your opinon. Or worse still, you read it somewhere and
didn't analize it with your God-given brain to see that it is a
worthless, doubt inducing, comment Straight from ... never mind.

BTW, evil ideas do not 'come straight from hell' -- such ideas are
'going straight to hell'. Right now the Devil is NOT, as many popular
sources suggest, the CEO = chief executive officer of hell -
the Lead Devil is going to be the primary inmate in hell
there for all eternity.

Bro. David: "Either we have the Word of God
in our hands, in a language we can read and study, or
we do not. I believe we do!!!"

Amen, Brother Bro. David -- Preach it!
I'm glad you know that my HCSB = Holman Christian Standard Bible,
is "he Word of God in our hands, in a language we can read and study".
Don't thou knoweth the HCSB sure beats the socks off
them 250-year old versions

Plain Old Bill: "So the question is ,just how inspired is your Bible?"

My Bible is lots more inspired than my understanding of it.
My Bible is WAY LOTS more inspired than some other folks
understanding of it.

2Pe 1:20-21 (KJV1611 Edition):
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of
the Scripture is of any priuate Interpretation:
21 For the prophecie came not in olde time by the will
of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moued
by the holy Ghost.

This teaches that God's prophecies are NOT FOR INDIVIDUALS,
the prophecies are for the whole Body of God.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I think Bro. David is referring to higher textual crtisism and some of our brothers who have middle east studied themselves into believing that parts of the Bible is fairy tales.They can believe whatever they want.I say let God be true and all men liars.Although I respect thier great learning I respect God's Word more.

 

[rjprince]

I am certainly not going to go into the KJVO issue here. I have literally spent many hundreds of hours on this issue. If the Bible is perfectly preserved in the English, or any other language, why are they not all the same? Why are the KJV's not all the same? Why did God not get it right in 1611? Whey was there a revision in 1769? Why was the spelling changed? Why were meanings changed from 1611 to 1769 (he to she, et. al.)? Why does one version not remain suspended in the air while the others drop to the ground? I am not trying to be sarcastic or flippant, but if one version is perfectly preserved, show me God's clear and unmistakable sign that it is.

I see where this is going and I refuse to take advanced riding lessons on how to ride dead horses with greater passion and fervor. Probably will back out of this one. There is a KJVO section, you now. Go there and peddle you wares...

I was not trying to start a KJVO fight when I made my post, only to clarify the same idea more clearly advanced in the Chicago Statement on Innerance. But, obviously my comments seem to have had that effect.

Maybe I was a little like the sibling who declared, "Mommy, Johnny started the fight when he hit me back..." Sorry. Not a conscious intent to be divisive, only to clarify my view that inspiration applies ONLY to the autographs, not the apographs (copies). Yes, I know, some people will never get it...

 

[Bro. David]

Thank you Bill, couldn't have said it better myself.
Onlyism, onlyism, fact is there is ONLY ONE Word of God! Where is It, who's got It? If only the autographs were inspired, then the answer is nobody has God's Word! God preserved His Word so we too could have It!
Has God lead you to believe in the Bible you hold in your hand? Can you learn from that Bible? Does God teach you through that Bible? If so, then those feelings you have for that Bible are inspired. Are they not? So study It and embrace It for what It is, 'God's Love letter to you'!
Maybe I should have posted as 'Bashedformybeliefs'
Love in Christ, Bro. David Heb. 7:25
PS I came here to learn and share, I can get bashed and degraded just fine by the world, I never expected it out of fellow believers. I feel I am wasting my time here, I could be writing a Sermon about the Blessed Gospel of Jesus - ain't that what IT is all about boys? Well, at least it is for me!!!

 

[rjprince]

Bro D.

Yep. Thought so. I did indeed hit you first, didn’t I? “Bashedformybeliefs” and “bashed and degraded”? If you are going to learn ANYTHING here, or indeed in life in general, you will have to develop a little bit tougher skin than that.

Onlyism, onlyism... Yep. Please do not hijack this thread with that. The Chicago statement quoted by Gold Dragon was really pretty clear...

Only one Bible? Which one of the KJV’s? 1611, 1769, Oxford or Cambridge? They ARE NOT IDENTICAL!!! No, I really do not want an answer, go to the KJVO thread for that. Only wanted to point out the inconsistency in the view, but again, I am sure my words are wasted, casting pearls and all that...