Justification By Faith Alone is Not Biblical

[Saved-By-Grace]

"From His first message to His last, the Savior's theme was calling sinners to repentance, and this meant not only that they gained a new perspective on who He was, but also that they turned from sin and self to follow Him"

- John MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus. This man is a Calvinist/Reformed teacher

 

[Calminian]

I don't think that this is the correct approach on arriving at the true definition for an important term as "Justification". The lexical definition will most probably be in line with the normal use of the word, with some comments by the lexicographer. However, it is more important in such cases, that the theological meaning as derived from Biblical data, is used instead, as this would be more in line with what the Bible actually says.

You misunderstand the point. I agree with the theological definition. My point had nothing to do with arriving at a theological definition. My point was about understanding specific biblical terms in specific contexts. A theological definition of a term does not always apply to every usage of that term in Scripture. James' use of the term justified in his epistle is a good example. He is speaking of a different justification—justification of a claim before men.

 

[agedman]

Even a small child understands the difference between repentance from a sorrow, and repentance as one sorry.

Those who believe understand and repeatedly experience the first. Such find refuge in the writing of John in his last years when he declares that if a believer sins, they have that advocate.

Those who do not believe but merely want an escape are like those who came to John the Baptizer and he turned them away, declaring they should bring fruit worthy.

John the Baptizer knew the difference between repentance and belief. Did not he say:

11“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”​

Was John the baptizer teaching that one has to repent to be saved? NOPE

What John the baptizer did was skillfully distinguish between that which is repentance and that which is salvation.

Note: Even those who were repentant could be burned up as "the chaff with unquenchable fire."

However, one who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit is not burned up, but are considered wheat to be gathered into the safety of the barn.

Repentance is important, but it is no guarantee of salvation.

 

[agedman]

"From His first message to His last, the Savior's theme was calling sinners to repentance, and this meant not only that they gained a new perspective on who He was, but also that they turned from sin and self to follow Him"

- John MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus. This man is a Calvinist/Reformed teacher

And John MacArthur is discussing salvation?

OR was he discussing as Paul the apostle often did in the letters to the churches the conduct of believers should be above reproach, not focused upon themselves, and not embracing the worldliness of this existence.

Certainly, one can see the appeal to salvation in the statement, but repentance means nothing without belief.

An atheist can repent, but that doesn't mean they believe God, in God, or that God is the one who rewards.

 

[Calminian]

I think MacArthur would view faith and repentance as 2 sides of the same coin. You cannot do one with out the other. Changing your mind about sin is simultaneous with placing your faith in Christ to save you. That's my understanding as well.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

And John MacArthur is discussing salvation?

OR was he discussing as Paul the apostle often did in the letters to the churches the conduct of believers should be above reproach, not focused upon themselves, and not embracing the worldliness of this existence.

Certainly, one can see the appeal to salvation in the statement, but repentance means nothing without belief.

An atheist can repent, but that doesn't mean they believe God, in God, or that God is the one who rewards.

check out the book, the Gospel According to Jesus, and you will see that it is about salvation.

 

[agedman]

I think MacArthur would view faith and repentance as 2 sides of the same coin. You cannot do one with out the other. Changing your mind about sin is simultaneous with placing your faith in Christ to save you. That's my understanding as well.

You did good until you said, “placing your faith...”.

It is “our” faith because God grants such to every believer, that certain measure of faith.

It is our faith in that Peter expresses how the believer is to add (adorn) to that faith character and qualities that the believer is not unskilled.

But, unlike those who are greatly exercised in attempting to place human generated ability into the salvation, the salvation of God is authored and completed in Him.

 

[agedman]

check out the book, the Gospel According to Jesus, and you will see that it is about salvation.

Don’t need to.

Again, you missed the point.

 

[Calminian]

You did good until you said, “placing your faith...”.

It is “our” faith because God grants such to every believer, that certain measure of faith.

It is our faith in that Peter expresses how the believer is to add (adorn) to that faith character and qualities that the believer is not unskilled.

But, unlike those who are greatly exercised in attempting to place human generated ability into the salvation, the salvation of God is authored and completed in Him.

The passages that talk about a measure of faith are speaking of everyday faith needed by believers to carry on and please God. Faith doesn't end at salvation. Same with Jame's mention of faith in James 2:5. It's not specifically speaking about saving faith, but the faith we all need to carryon daily.

That said, i also believe we cannot muster up saving faith on our own. We are totally depraved and unable to believe apart from God's grace.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You misunderstand the point. I agree with the theological definition. My point had nothing to do with arriving at a theological definition. My point was about understanding specific biblical terms in specific contexts. A theological definition of a term does not always apply to every usage of that term in Scripture. James' use of the term justified in his epistle is a good example. He is speaking of a different justification—justification of a claim before men.

James is using Justification by works to prove his point, but this is post, and not pre salvation. It is not for salvation, but because of salvation.

 

[Calminian]

James is using Justification by works to prove his point, but this is post, and not pre salvation. It is not for salvation, but because of salvation.

In a sense, yes. Specifically he is saying, If we claim to have faith before other men (James 2:14), that claim will only be justified in their minds by what they see us doing. If they see good works in us, this will justify our claim. If they do not see good works in us, our claim will be unjustified. We will be demonstrating a faith that did not change us and is therefore useless.

 

[agedman]

The passages that talk about a measure of faith are speaking of everyday faith needed by believers to carry on and please God. Faith doesn't end at salvation. Same with Jame's mention of faith in James 2:5. It's not specifically speaking about saving faith, but the faith we all need to carryon daily.

That said, i also believe we cannot muster up saving faith on our own. We are totally depraved and unable to believe apart from God's grace.

I agree with all that you stated, however in my personal study, I found there is no separation from everyday believer faith and that granted in salvation.

It is sort of like some who would separate sacred and secular perhaps not grasping that to the believer everything is sacred.

To confirm our agreement, does not the Scriptures state that “We are His workmanship...”. Such is seen not only a statement concerning the initiation of salvation, but as you point out daily living until the Father’s appointed home calling.

I recall that David remarks how before conception, God had already marked and plotted out his whole life. How much more does He who first loved us and calls us His by adoption take specific care in planning our journey?

 

[Calminian]

I agree with all that you stated, however in my personal study, I found there is no separation from everyday believer faith and that granted in salvation....

I think we agree on a lot. It's only separate in the sense that in continues after salvation and this faith differs among various Christians. A different measure is given to each. In essence it's a spiritual gift.

Rom. 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,​

I'm thinking we're on the same page, for the most part.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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