Justification By Faith Alone is Not Biblical

[Saved-By-Grace]

God in His "foreknowledge" knew that Judas would betray Jesus Christ, and therefore chose him as His Disciple. But, this does not equate to "preordained", as God cannot cause anyone to sin

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Indeed, Scripture has many hard sayings.

1Pet. 2:8 and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.” They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

You will find in the Greek, that "appointed" is to do with their "stumbling", because they chose to be disobedient. They are disobedient, and therefore they stumble. The Greek verb, τίθημι, says nothing of any "predestination", or, "fore-appointing", which is what the KJV reading makes it.

 

[Calminian]

God in His "foreknowledge" knew that Judas would betray Jesus Christ, and therefore chose him as His Disciple. But, this does not equate to "predestined", as God cannot cause anyone to sin

I would agree with you to some extent. Predestined and chose have virtually the same meaning. But I read all the predestination verses in their limited context. Here we see God appoints some whom he foreknew to complete certain tasks. Judas was one of those. God knew his every decision in every situation. He therefore used him to compete a specific task.

 

[Calminian]

You will find in the Greek, that "appointed" is to do with their "stumbling", because they chose to be disobedient. They are disobedient, and therefore they stumble. The Greek verb, τίθημι, says nothing of any "predestination", or, "fore-appointing", which is what the KJV reading makes it.

Depends on the context. Again, there's no magic in matching original greek words. You have to look at context. For instance.

John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.​

This speaks of appointing to a future task. It's the same greek word. It's all about context.

 

[agedman]

Not certain why folks are continuing the conversation with SBG.

He has stated His bible is not the one I use which is the NKJV, the NASB, the NIV, the ESV, ...

Perhaps he doesn’t recognize what is Scripture and what is his own personal bias.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Not certain why folks are continuing the conversation with SBG.

He has stated His bible is not the one I use which is the NKJV, the NASB, the NIV, the ESV, ...

Perhaps he doesn’t recognize what is Scripture and what is his own personal bias.

you don't have to respond to my posts? we have crossed before I remember, and you still return! My like what I say

 

[kyredneck]

Indeed. You make my case. Born from above includes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Undecided on what 'the indwelling of the Holy Spirit' entails. Or maybe 'not dogmatic' See:

.Were OT Saints Indwelt?

I referenced Jn 3:21 here:

The heart is changed BEFORE conversion/temporal salvation. It's the primary theme of the first 21 verses of John 3.

21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn 3

BEFORE 'coming to the light' these were ALREADY 'doing the truth' and exhibiting works, God had ALREADY 'wrought within them'. See:

Did You Love the Light or the Darkness?

 

[Calminian]

Undecided on what 'the indwelling of the Holy Spirit' entails. Or maybe 'not dogmatic' See:

.Were OT Saints Indwelt?

I referenced Jn 3:21 here:



21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn 3

BEFORE 'coming to the light' these were ALREADY 'doing the truth' and exhibiting works, God had ALREADY 'wrought within them'. See:

Did You Love the Light or the Darkness?

There is a doctrine of enlightenment or illumination that I do believe comes before faith. In fact it's the rejection of this light that results in condemnation. But I don't think this is referring to salvation. It is pre-faith.

John 1:9 There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.

John 12:36 “While you have the light, believe in the light, in order that you may become sons of light.”​

I do think faith is impossible without this. Man will never seek based on his own light.

 

[Calminian]

Justification is one of those words that has both a theological definition, as well as a lexical definition.

From Theopedia:

Justification is the doctrine that God pardons, accepts, and declares a sinner to be "just" on the basis of Christ's righteousness (Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 5:15-21) which results in God's peace (Rom 5:1), His Spirit (Rom 8:4), and salvation. Justification is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ apart from all works and merit of the sinner (cf. Rom 1:18-3:28).​

The above is correct and I agree. But there's also the lexical definition of Justification which is much more broad.

From Mounce Greek Dictionary:

a making right or just; a declaration of right or justice; a judicial sentence; in NT, acquittal, acceptance, justification.​

When approaching this word in Scripture it's imperative we start with the lexical definition and look at the context to see how the word issued. The lexical definition has a wider range of use and we can't always cram the theological definition into every occurrence of the word.

Most of the usage of this word in James has to do with the justification of a claim before men, not justification of sins before God. The early readers of this passage would have had no problem understanding what James was talking about as they didn't have the modern theological definition, which is speaking of a specific context of the term.

Luther actually rejected the book of James over this misunderstanding, but the early Church knew better. But once you separate the theological definition from the lexical, the confusion disappears.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 7:30 PM Pacific.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Justification is one of those words that has both a theological definition, as well as a lexical definition.

From Theopedia:

Justification is the doctrine that God pardons, accepts, and declares a sinner to be "just" on the basis of Christ's righteousness (Rom 3:24-26; 4:25; 5:15-21) which results in God's peace (Rom 5:1), His Spirit (Rom 8:4), and salvation. Justification is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ apart from all works and merit of the sinner (cf. Rom 1:18-3:28).​

The above is correct and I agree. But there's also the lexical definition of Justification which is much more broad.

From Mounce Greek Dictionary:

a making right or just; a declaration of right or justice; a judicial sentence; in NT, acquittal, acceptance, justification.​

When approaching this word in Scripture it's imperative we start with the lexical definition and look at the context to see how the word issued. The lexical definition has a wider range of use and we can't always cram the theological definition into every occurrence of the word.

Most of the usage of this word in James has to do with the justification of a claim before men, not justification of sins before God. The early readers of this passage would have had no problem understanding what James was talking about as they didn't have the modern theological definition, which is speaking of a specific context of the term.

Luther actually rejected the book of James over this misunderstanding, but the early Church knew better. But once you separate the theological definition from the lexical, the confusion disappears.

I don't think that this is the correct approach on arriving at the true definition for an important term as "Justification". The lexical definition will most probably be in line with the normal use of the word, with some comments by the lexicographer. However, it is more important in such cases, that the theological meaning as derived from Biblical data, is used instead, as this would be more in line with what the Bible actually says.

 

[agedman]

you don't have to respond to my posts? we have crossed before I remember, and you still return! My like what I say

I don't post for your benefit.

Foolishness is bound in the heart of one that does not respond to correction, and evidenced by the responses on this thread one can not escape the logical conclusion.

Then why do I post?

That the casual reader is not deceived into thinking that if they repent then they are saved.

There is only one single Scripture statement concerning the destiny determiner, and it is NOT repentance.

It is belief.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" is still found in the Scriptures.

Belief (believe) is NOT human generated faith, for such cannot attain the righteousness of God - it is as fallen and dead as the rest of the heathen.

Belief (pistes) is God granted confidence in which He instills that the one who then is a believer may call upon Him who saves to the uttermost with confidence, not in some failed fleshly foam, but in that which is unseen yet hoped for, the substance of that assured, the evidence born out in a changed life.

SBG is presenting a false gospel by his declarations of repentance before salvation.

There is absolutely no Scriptures other then what he may pluck out of proof-texting posts that when placed in context have been shown to present what is in error.

 

[Yeshua1]

God in His "foreknowledge" knew that Judas would betray Jesus Christ, and therefore chose him as His Disciple. But, this does not equate to "preordained", as God cannot cause anyone to sin

God predestined Judas to be the Apostle to fall, and Judas also agreed and willingly did that evil act!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I don't post for your benefit.

Foolishness is bound in the heart of one that does not respond to correction, and evidenced by the responses on this thread one can not escape the logical conclusion.

Then why do I post?

That the casual reader is not deceived into thinking that if they repent then they are saved.

There is only one single Scripture statement concerning the destiny determiner, and it is NOT repentance.

It is belief.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" is still found in the Scriptures.

Belief (believe) is NOT human generated faith, for such cannot attain the righteousness of God - it is as fallen and dead as the rest of the heathen.

Belief (pistes) is God granted confidence in which He instills that the one who then is a believer may call upon Him who saves to the uttermost with confidence, not in some failed fleshly foam, but in that which is unseen yet hoped for, the substance of that assured, the evidence born out in a changed life.

SBG is presenting a false gospel by his declarations of repentance before salvation.

There is absolutely no Scriptures other then what he may pluck out of proof-texting posts that when placed in context have been shown to present what is in error.

"SBG is presenting a false gospel by his declarations of repentance before salvation". so the Holy Bible is in error!

 

[Yeshua1]

"SBG is presenting a false gospel by his declarations of repentance before salvation". so the Holy Bible is in error!

What did paul tell the Jailer to do in order to be saved?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

God predestined Judas to be the Apostle to fall, and Judas also agreed and willingly did that evil act!

you are still in error by what you say. God could not cause Judas to "fall", which is the "betrayal" of Jesus Christ, which was the greatest sin that any human could do. Your thinking is not in line with Scripture. You must put aside any theological thinking and stick to the Bible

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

What did paul tell the Jailer to do in order to be saved?

My friend, not every detail that was discussed between Paul and the jailer is recorded. If you read Paul's Epistles, you will clearly see that he firmly believed in repentance also, as you will see from 1 Thess. 1:9, etc "For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols (repented) to serve the living and true God"

 

[agedman]

"SBG is presenting a false gospel by his declarations of repentance before salvation". so the Holy Bible is in error!

Nope, not the Scriptures.

YOU.

You take what you desire to read into the Scriptures.

I never bring doubt to the Scriptures, but you certainly do by presenting that some human volition and action must take place prior to salvation.

Salvation is a gift of God through the faith that God gives. It is not based upon the will of humankind nor such efforts as they may generate.

 

[agedman]

My friend, not every detail that was discussed between Paul and the jailer is recorded. If you read Paul's Epistles, you will clearly see that he firmly believed in repentance also, as you will see from 1 Thess. 1:9, etc "For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols (repented) to serve the living and true God"

So rather then reliance upon the Scriptures, one sees that SBG relies upon conjecture.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So rather then reliance upon the Scriptures, one sees that SBG relies upon conjecture.