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Justification By Faith Alone is Not Biblical

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Saved-By-Grace, Mar 30, 2018.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, they are still exercising their "free will" to come unto jesus to get saved, its just that God has to first grant them the repentance/faith eternal life in christ!
     
    #141 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2018
  2. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, election is Biblical, because it is in the Bible. However, the Reformed/Calvinistic teaching of this is not, as it is more to do with theology, than what the Bible actually says.
     
    #142 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  3. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    this is plain rubbish!
     
    #143 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All seem to agree on election, its just the basis is different, mine is based upon Will of god, others based upon will of man!
     
    #144 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2018
  5. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    what do you make of Jesus' words in John 15:16? "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen (ἐκλέγω) you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you", which includes Judas. See also John 6:70, where the same Greek word, ἐκλέγω" is used, again including Judas, who we know sadly has not gone to heaven.
     
    #145 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  6. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    We seem fairly close then (although the heart changes after salvation due to the entering of the Holy Spirit). Salvation by faith alone does not imply a salvation that is not accompanied by good works. The works are a result of salvation, not the cause. The works are the evidence or the justification of a claim to be saved.

    The key to this debate is James' use of the term justified. Martin Luther used this term to create a theological term and so it's easy to see why we might apply this theological definition in all contexts. We need to be careful about that. The biblical term justified is a much simpler word and can be used in various contexts, apart from salvation.
     
    #146 Calminian, Mar 31, 2018
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus called him a devil, knew him to be the one to fulfill scripture, so Judas never was to be saved!
     
    #147 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2018
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The spiritual dead sinner in their own sin natures cannot just will themselves to now believe in Jesus, can they?
     
    #148 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2018
  9. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    I know Judas was not saved. My point is that Jesus "chose" (elected) him!
     
    #149 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NOT to get saved, but to fulfill the scriptures that one of His own would betray Him!
     
    #150 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2018
  11. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    I am referring to God "enabling" the elect sinner to believe. This is pure fantasy.
     
    #151 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  12. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    same Greek word ἐκλέγω here used for all the disciples. But "chosen" here shows that the Reformed understanding is wrong.
     
    #152 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, rather that jesus choose all 12 to be His Apostles, but only 11 were chosen to be saved!
     
    #153 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2018
  14. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    elected him to what?
     
    #154 Calminian, Mar 31, 2018
  15. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? " (John 6:70), all the 12 are included in the single use of ἐκλέγω, which cannot be understood as you suggest
     
    #155 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  16. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    you make me laugh! :D
     
    #156 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  17. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Specific words are not the issue. The specific context of those words is the issue. All words in all languages have a semantic range. Scripture speaks of election to many things, salvation, good works, etc. So you have to ask, elected to what?
     
    #157 Calminian, Mar 31, 2018
  18. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    tell me?
     
    #158 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    which shows to us that being choen in that passage refers to being His Apostle, not salvation!
     
    #159 Yeshua1, Mar 31, 2018
  20. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    look at John 6:70
     
    #160 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 31, 2018
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