No, they are still exercising their "free will" to come unto jesus to get saved, its just that God has to first grant them the repentance/faith eternal life in christ!
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Justification By Faith Alone is Not Biblical
- Thread starter Saved-By-Grace
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Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Indeed, election is Biblical, because it is in the Bible. However, the Reformed/Calvinistic teaching of this is not, as it is more to do with theology, than what the Bible actually says.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
this is plain rubbish!
All seem to agree on election, its just the basis is different, mine is based upon Will of god, others based upon will of man!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
what do you make of Jesus' words in John 15:16? "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen (ἐκλέγω) you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you", which includes Judas. See also John 6:70, where the same Greek word, ἐκλέγω" is used, again including Judas, who we know sadly has not gone to heaven.
We seem fairly close then (although the heart changes after salvation due to the entering of the Holy Spirit). Salvation by faith alone does not imply a salvation that is not accompanied by good works. The works are a result of salvation, not the cause. The works are the evidence or the justification of a claim to be saved.
The key to this debate is James' use of the term justified. Martin Luther used this term to create a theological term and so it's easy to see why we might apply this theological definition in all contexts. We need to be careful about that. The biblical term justified is a much simpler word and can be used in various contexts, apart from salvation.
Jesus called him a devil, knew him to be the one to fulfill scripture, so Judas never was to be saved!
The spiritual dead sinner in their own sin natures cannot just will themselves to now believe in Jesus, can they?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
I know Judas was not saved. My point is that Jesus "chose" (elected) him!
NOT to get saved, but to fulfill the scriptures that one of His own would betray Him!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
I am referring to God "enabling" the elect sinner to believe. This is pure fantasy.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
same Greek word ἐκλέγω here used for all the disciples. But "chosen" here shows that the Reformed understanding is wrong.
No, rather that jesus choose all 12 to be His Apostles, but only 11 were chosen to be saved!
elected him to what?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? " (John 6:70), all the 12 are included in the single use of ἐκλέγω, which cannot be understood as you suggest
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Specific words are not the issue. The specific context of those words is the issue. All words in all languages have a semantic range. Scripture speaks of election to many things, salvation, good works, etc. So you have to ask, elected to what?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
tell me?
which shows to us that being choen in that passage refers to being His Apostle, not salvation!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
look at John 6:70
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