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Justification By Faith Alone is Not Biblical
- Thread starter Saved-By-Grace
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Justification is a theological term as well as a biblical term. dikaioo merely means to render just or innocent. It can be used in many contexts, and is not always used in the context of salvation.
James often uses the term in the sense of justification before men, while Paul often uses it in describing justification before God. James speaks of justification of a claim - "if we say we have faith" while Paul speaks of justification of our sins.
In regard to our sin before God it is very clear ware are justified by faith alone. There can't be any works in this at all (lest anyone should boast). James never contradicts this. He is speaking of our claim to faith before others. That claim is only vindicated (justified) by our actions. Works always accompany true faith.
Interestingly, Paul touches on this kind of justification as well in Romans. "....“That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.” Here Paul is also talking about justification or vindication before men in regards to a claim (justified in your words). But like James, he is not talking, here, about salvation.
If you are a Baptist, you agree the lost are totally lost, totally without hope, totally (as the Scriptures state) dead, totally depraved in every aspect of what such would even consider “good.”
The same was held by the Wesley’s which is why they had to construct the human invention of preceding/prevenient grace that the depraved dead hearted human might have a choice.
Note to all:
Such Grace is NOT found in the Scriptures, but was a human manipulation tool.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing how the Lord worked in your life. Truly we serve a Wonderful God!
Simply put, Justification by faith alone means that one is justified after he/she has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. Once he/she has done that he/she is justified, That is, it is just as he/she has never committed sin. In other words, Justification is a legal term. When a person goes to court for a crime, he can be found guilty or not guilty. In the event that he is found guilty and is guilty, justice has been served. However, if he is guilty and the court rules that he is not guilty, justice has not been served. According to the Bible all people are guilty because all of us have committed sin. But, when Jesus died for our sins, those who believed and accepted Him as Lord and Savior have been justified by their faith in Him. Therefore, they have been declared not guilty even though they were. That is, we who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior are forgiven for our sin. Isn't that why Jesus sacrificed his life so that the whole world could be forgiven.
Repentance, however, just means that you have changed your mind about your lifestyle, sinful state, or the way you are living your life and that you are willing to turn to Jesus. In other words, you do not have to repent first before you come to Jesus. You can come to Him in your sinful state and He will accept you just as you are. There is a scripture in the Bible that says, "Whosoever will, let him come." Moreover, it is the conviction power of the Holy Spirit that cause you to come, but when you come it is also the Holy Spirit that leads and guides you to live without practicing sin (i.e., in repentance from the former lifestyle.)
Please read Romans and James for further clarification.
Dr. R. McKenzie
Repentance, however, just means that you have changed your mind about your lifestyle, sinful state, or the way you are living your life and that you are willing to turn to Jesus. In other words, you do not have to repent first before you come to Jesus. You can come to Him in your sinful state and He will accept you just as you are. There is a scripture in the Bible that says, "Whosoever will, let him come." Moreover, it is the conviction power of the Holy Spirit that cause you to come, but when you come it is also the Holy Spirit that leads and guides you to live without practicing sin (i.e., in repentance from the former lifestyle.)
Please read Romans and James for further clarification.
Dr. R. McKenzie
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
I do agree that all sinners are totally lost. However, I do not believe that the Calvinistic/Reformed understanding of this is Biblically correct. It is not that the sinner is so dead, that they cannot respond to the Gospel call; but, as the Bible says, "our sins have separated us from God" (Isaiah 59:2), which is what I believe the Bible means "spiritual dead". In John's Gospel, Jesus is speaking to the Jews who wanted to murder Him (chapter 5), as we see in verse 17-19, later in this chapter He tells these same Jews, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live" (verse 25). Notice, that the spiritual dead are capable of "hearing" the Gospel, and those that "hear" (respond), will live. This, my friend was spoken the these murdering Jews, verse, 19, "Then answered Jesus and said unto them"
The Holy Spirit Himself will first of all convict/convince the sinner that they are guilty before Holy God, need to repent of how to get right with him, and trust in Christ person and work alone to save them.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
However, Jesus tells us, "REPENT and BELIEVE (faith) in the Gospel" (Mark 1:15). "And that REPENTANCE for forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47). Which means that a sinner cannot have "forgiveness" of their sins, till the time they actually REPENT. As we read in Acts 2:37, "what shall we do?", was the cry of those who the Holy Spirit had convicted of their sins when they hear Peter preach the Gospel. To which Peter responds, "REPENT". There is no cheap grace in the Bible, REPENTANCE and FAITH as Jesus says, is a MUST before a person can be born again. This is what the Bible, not theology, teaches.
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
So, do you then agree that the sinner must repent of their sins, before they can be forgiven and saved?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
Repentance and faith are a must as Jesus taught. How else can a sinner receive the forgiveness from God to save them, if they do not repent first? How can they be forgiven if there is no repentance? What are they being forgiven of?
My understanding of repenting would be narrow, as in the sinner agreeing with the Holy spirit once enabled to by Him, that they cannot earn salvation by own efforts, and trust in jesus alone to save them. God does not need to first repent of all known sins before getting saved.
Repent of the dead good works, not of all sins, as they need to firt acknowledge only Jesus can them .
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
The 'works' to which James is referring:
27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2
...are the very same works of which we're all going to be judged by in that day of judgement:
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25
This is most definitely NOT 'justification before men'. This justification is before the Supreme Judge. Synonymous with:
5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
No. Faith is not even mentioned in the above judgement (or any of the Bible passages concerning the judgement), let alone "faith alone". The demons have "faith alone":
19 Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. Ja 2
All you have to do to be biblical about this is STOP adding to the gospel the word 'alone'. Justification is NOT by faith only:
The 'works' to which James is referring:
27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2
...are the very same works of which we're all going to be judged by in that day of judgement:
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25
This is most definitely NOT 'justification before men'. This justification is before the Supreme Judge. Synonymous with:
5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
No. Faith is not even mentioned in the above judgement (or any of the Bible passages concerning the judgement), let alone "faith alone". The demons have "faith alone":
19 Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. Ja 2
All you have to do to be biblical about this is STOP adding to the gospel the word 'alone'. Justification is NOT by faith only:
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified , and not only by faith. Ja 2
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
but can you provide Scripture that says the Holy Spirit has to "enable" the sinner, in order they can repent? How can this be the case, when Acts 17:30 says, "God commands all men everywhere to repent", which is something that these have to DO to respond to this command. Unless God is not sincere as they cannot repent until they are "enabled"?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
can a sinner be "forgiven" before they "repent"? can a person be "saved" before they are "forgiven"? These are very important steps in the salvation of all sinners.
Is this not a confused presentation?
You state you agree that all sinners are TOTALLY lost, yet not so totally dead as incapable of responding to the gospel.
You state that the sinner is "not... so dead" yet do not the Scriptures declare that the lost are in fact dead, not merely spiritually but totally are as a corpse incapable of response?
Sin does not merely separate us from God (using your term) making us "spiritually dead" but sin makes us (even believers) physically dead.
So, then in what manner is the dead not so dead as that they have any ability outside of the life giving of the Christ to attend to what is Godly repentance?
First, the Lord Jesus Christ does not separate folks into categories that include: alive but spiritually dead, dead but spiritually alive, ...
He uses terms of complete determination.
Dead means dead. One may not yet have the physical cessation of the body, but that person is "condemned already." Such are not pictured by Christ as alive waiting for judgement, but dead waiting for judgment.
Second, the passage you reference is not presenting human ability, but focuses upon that of the work of both the Father and the Son.
John 5:
19Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20“For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. 21“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22“For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Do not stumble over verse 24 thinking that it gives some reprieve that the ungodly have some ability to self generate repentance unto salvation.24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Paul makes such thinking foolishness in Romans - especially that wonderful section found in Romans 10.
Godly repentance must come from a person that has already been quickened (made alive) that they proclaim the truth of what has taken place in them.
Recall the woman at the well? People in the town were not converted because of her testimony, but because they also had a personal encounter with the life giver.
Here is the crux of your argument.
You hold that people have enough life in them to express repentance.
The Scriptures do not support such.
The Scriptures present that there is one life giver, and that unless life is given the human is dead, no matter what the human does there is no life outside of the one who gives life.
Life is not attained by effort, be it prayer of repentance or fasting or offering or any other means.
Life is given in the manner The Lord Jesus Christ stated in John 6
35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
The dead do not behold the Son. They (John 1) turn from the Son, disregarding the Son.
While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
You perhaps need to adjust your thoughts about salvation.
Salvation is NOT based upon repentance.
Salvation is based upon belief (John 3).
The ones cast into the eternal flames are not condemned because of a lack of repentance.
Such are condemned because of a lack of belief. John 3
These are all in the context of what James says here:
James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith.....
"if someone claims to have faith." James entire point is in regard to justification of a claim.
As I mentioned, the biblical word justification has a very simple meaning and can be used in many contexts. When used in the context of claims before men, you are correct, our claim to faith before men is justified (proven) by our actions. A faith that does not result in works is useless. But in regard to justification of sins before God, works do not play a role.
Paul and James are not at odds, they are just using the word justified in different contexts.
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