Justification By Faith Alone is Not Biblical

[Saved-By-Grace]

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

You perhaps need to adjust your thoughts about salvation.

Salvation is NOT based upon repentance.

Salvation is based upon belief (John 3).

The ones cast into the eternal flames are not condemned because of a lack of repentance.

Such are condemned because of a lack of belief. John 3

you are playing games with the Word of God. Typically of the "Reformed", they tend to choose the Scriptures that suit their theological bias, and either ignore or disregard those that are against what they believe. Listen, if you will, to the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, to ALL sinners:

"except you REPENT, you shall all likewise PERISH" (Luke 13:3, 5)

you will note that "lack of belief" is not even mentioned in the passage! If you do not REPENT, says God Incarnate, you WILL be going to eternal punishment.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

You perhaps need to adjust your thoughts about salvation.

Salvation is NOT based upon repentance.

Salvation is based upon belief (John 3).

The ones cast into the eternal flames are not condemned because of a lack of repentance.

Such are condemned because of a lack of belief. John 3

so a sinner can be saved without forgiveness of sins? And this forgiveness can be without repenting? You have misread the Bible!

 

[kyredneck]

James entire point is in regard to justification of a claim.

No. I drew from the context the works to which James was referring. You can argue what his use of 'justification' was with the Judge on that day.

One of the biggest things I miss from the KJV is it's rendering of agape as 'charity'. It's the essence of the religion of Jesus Christ. It seems to escape many these days.

 

[kyredneck]

Paul and James are not at odds

From your narrow unbiblical perspective, explain these 'odds':

....the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2:13

...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified... Ro 3:20

 

[agedman]

you are playing games with the Word of God. Typically of the "Reformed", they tend to choose the Scriptures that suit their theological bias, and either ignore or disregard those that are against what they believe. Listen, if you will, to the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, to ALL sinners:

"except you REPENT, you shall all likewise PERISH" (Luke 13:3, 5)

you will note that "lack of belief" is not even mentioned in the passage! If you do not REPENT, says God Incarnate, you WILL be going to eternal punishment.

Do not assume that I play games concerning the rendering of Scriptures.

Have you looked at the context of Luke's recording of the statement of Christ?

Clue: The repentance that the Lord is remarking about is NOT repentance unto eternal salvation but repentance unto PHYSICAL salvation.

The Lord Jesus Christ even followed it up with a specific parable that the emphasis upon the physical not be missed.

Let's discuss this point of bias you attempt to put forward.

By your proof texting, you not only ignore the context, but attempt to demean and portray others as ignorant and dismissive. That type of posting is reactionary and is accountable to your OWN bias being threatened with the truth.

Typically, it is a psychological resistance to change and generally is found most significantly among the various cult groupings. Not that I would consider you of such, but that same psychological resistance to change is seen on the BB when truth is shown. This is why the threads tend to become similar over similar issues.

By presenting the Scriptures inappropriately and based upon your own bias, such does not allow for even the recognition of error even when an abundant of posters have pointed it out in their responses. Such must rely upon proof texting - which is evident in your use of Luke 13 without placing the statement into the correct context but attempting to manipulate it into some other that is inappropriate.

 

[agedman]

so a sinner can be saved without forgiveness of sins? And this forgiveness can be without repenting? You have misread the Bible!

Never stated as much.

I stated that one is saved by being a believer, not by repentance.

Without the shedding of blood there was no forgiveness for sins.

 

[Yeshua1]

but can you provide Scripture that says the Holy Spirit has to "enable" the sinner, in order they can repent? How can this be the case, when Acts 17:30 says, "God commands all men everywhere to repent", which is something that these have to DO to respond to this command. Unless God is not sincere as they cannot repent until they are "enabled"?

Natural man, in their sin natures, are at war with God, will not bow to Him, and prefer to stay in their sins.

 

[Yeshua1]

can a sinner be "forgiven" before they "repent"? can a person be "saved" before they are "forgiven"? These are very important steps in the salvation of all sinners.

From the viewpoint of God from eternity, the elect are already fully forgiven, but still must have that come to pass in being now saved in this life!

 

[Yeshua1]

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2



The 'works' to which James is referring:

27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2

...are the very same works of which we're all going to be judged by in that day of judgement:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25

This is most definitely NOT 'justification before men'. This justification is before the Supreme Judge. Synonymous with:

5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2



No. Faith is not even mentioned in the above judgement (or any of the Bible passages concerning the judgement), let alone "faith alone". The demons have "faith alone":

19 Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. Ja 2

All you have to do to be biblical about this is STOP adding to the gospel the word 'alone'. Justification is NOT by faith only:

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified , and not only by faith. Ja 2​

Demons believe that there is a God, the saved believe in him to save them from their sins, hugh difference!

 

[Yeshua1]

These are all in the context of what James says here:

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith.....​

"if someone claims to have faith." James entire point is in regard to justification of a claim.

As I mentioned, the biblical word justification has a very simple meaning and can be used in many contexts. When used in the context of claims before men, you are correct, our claim to faith before men is justified (proven) by our actions. A faith that does not result in works is useless. But in regard to justification of sins before God, works do not play a role.

Paul and James are not at odds, they are just using the word justified in different contexts.

Both agree that the faith that saves is the one that produces good works!

 

[Yeshua1]

so a sinner can be saved without forgiveness of sins? And this forgiveness can be without repenting? You have misread the Bible!

Jesus said that the only work God needed so to speak was to believe in God, and His Son, Jesus Christ!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Never stated as much.

I stated that one is saved by being a believer, not by repentance.

Without the shedding of blood there was no forgiveness for sins.

I can see that you have a different Bible to mine, and a different understanding of salvation, which will prove to be a waste of both our time, to continue this discussion. I wish you well.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Jesus said that the only work God needed so to speak was to believe in God, and His Son, Jesus Christ!

so, what do you think Jesus meant by, "And that repentance for remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47)? Is Jesus mistaken here?

 

[Yeshua1]

so, what do you think Jesus meant by, "And that repentance for remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem" (Luke 24:47)? Is Jesus mistaken here?

No, its that the repentance would be turning away from salvation by good works to faith in Him alone!

 

[kyredneck]

Both agree that the faith that saves is the one that produces good works!

No. Both would agree that the HEART which produces the faith that saves is the one that produces good works:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

From the viewpoint of God from eternity, the elect are already fully forgiven, but still must have that come to pass in being now saved in this life!

WOW!!! you Calvinists/Reformed do make it up as you go along!!! Now we have the new, unbiblical doctrine, that God has forgiven hell-deserving sinners, before they are even born, or even repent??? This is fantastic, and so very not Bible! I really wish you guys could stick to the Bible, and forget fancy theology!

 

[Yeshua1]

No. Both would agree that the HEART which produces the faith that saves is the one that produces good works:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

John Calvin did have it right on this when he stated that faith alone saves us, but that type of faith will not be alone, without producung any good works!

 

[Yeshua1]

WOW!!! you Calvinists/Reformed do make it up as you go along!!! Now we have the new, unbiblical doctrine, that God has forgiven hell-deserving sinners, before they are even born, or even repent??? This is fantastic, and so very not Bible! I really wish you guys could stick to the Bible, and forget fancy theology!

God already has chosen the elect to receive eternal life in Christ, knows that their sins are forgiven already due to the Cross of Christ, but they still MUST receive jesus in their life to be saved!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

John Calvin did have it right on this when he stated that faith alone saves us, but that type of faith will not be alone, without producung any good works!

but you believe that the sinners who are saved, are merely puppets who do nothing, as God has already done their repenting for them, and saved them!

 

[Calminian]

WOW!!! you Calvinists/Reformed do make it up as you go along!!! Now we have the new, unbiblical doctrine, that God has forgiven hell-deserving sinners, before they are even born, or even repent??? This is fantastic, and so very not Bible! I really wish you guys could stick to the Bible, and forget fancy theology!

Count me among them. Election is biblical.