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Justification/ Man-Made Laws

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
When the apostle Paul wrote his epistle to the Galatian Church, we see a very angry Paul. He said things that would get our accounts deleted on BB, and he said them by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Of course that doesn't mean we have the permission to say these things to one another.

His letter was in response to news he had received about the Church. He begins to address them in 1:6,

Gal. 1:6-7

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ."

Some of the Messianic Jews probably from the Church in Jerusalem, had told the Galatians they must also be circumcised with the circumcision of Abraham in order to be saved. It seems the Galatians took this false doctrine hook, line, and sinker.

He tells them in 3:2,

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" In 3:1 he tells them they are foolish and have been bewitched. In 5:12 he wishes these false prophets would be cut off from the land, and in 1:8 he says,

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Paul is saying to let these false prophets be eternally damned for preaching a false Gospel.

In 5:4 we find out why Paul is so upset.

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

These Galatians through adding circumcision to their faith in the finished work of Christ have lost their salvation!

Remember when Paul said in Rom. 11:6?

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Grace has been forfeited and cancelled out through adding works to the requirement of salvation! Leaving them apart from the Grace of God and under the curse of the Law.

My point of this thread is that adding anything, including any man-made law to faith in Christ has cancelled the Grace of God and place you under the curse of the Law. The Law is a curse in that man cannot keep the Law no matter how hard he tries. Paul told us that the Law brings forth death, a spiritual death being separated from God for eternity.

What are some of these man-made laws that we add to our faith and cancels out Grace?

There was nothing wrong in itself of circumcision, even for a Gentile.

Paul was training Timothy for the ministry, his mother was a Jew and his father a Greek. Paul took and circumcised Timothy so that he would be more accepted by the Jews and he could reach them with the Gospel. Nothing wrong with that at all, BUT, when man makes his Law of something, anything, that must be added to faith in Christ for salvation, he has cancelled Grace and is at the mercy of the Law, whether the Law of Moses or a man-made law of his making.

Is there a law you have created, maybe it's a good thing, but you have placed it as a requirement for salvation? I urge you to search your heart and confirm to yourself and the Lord God that your faith is in Him alone for His Grace that brings salvation.
 
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Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
When the apostle Paul wrote his epistle to the Galatian Church, we see a very angry Paul. He said things that would get our accounts deleted on BB, and he said them by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Of course that doesn't mean we have the permission to say these things to one another.

His letter was in response to news he had received about the Church. He begins to address them in 1:6,

Gal. 1:6-7

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ."

Some of the Messianic Jews probably from the Church in Jerusalem, had told the Galatians they must also be circumcised with the circumcision of Abraham in order to be saved. It seems the Galatians took this false doctrine hook, line, and sinker.

He tells them in 3:2,

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" In 3:1 he tells them they are foolish and have been bewitched. In 5:12 he wishes these false prophets would be cut off from the land, and in 1:8 he says,

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Paul is saying to let these false prophets be eternally damned for preaching a false Gospel.

In 5:4 we find out why Paul is so upset.

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

These Galatians through adding circumcision to their faith in the finished work of Christ have lost their salvation!
did they lose it. or did they ever have it?

Was their actual faith not in the law to begin with. which is why they fell so fast? You always resort to what you really trust in
Remember when Paul said in Rom. 11:6?

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Grace has been forfeited and cancelled out through adding works to the requirement of salvation! Leaving them apart from the Grace of God and under the curse of the Law.

My point of this thread is that adding anything, including any man-made law to faith in Christ has cancelled the Grace of God and place you under the curse of the Law. The Law is a curse in that man cannot keep the Law no matter how hard he tries. Paul told us that the Law brings forth death, a spiritual death being separated from God for eternity.

What are some of these man-made laws that we add to our faith and cancels out Grace?

There was nothing wrong in itself of circumcision, even for a Gentile.

Paul was training Timothy for the ministry, his mother was a Jew and his father a Greek. Paul took and circumcised Timothy so that he would be more accepted by the Jews and he could reach them with the Gospel. Nothing wrong with that at all, BUT, when man makes his Law of something, anything, that must be added to faith in Christ for salvation, he has cancelled Grace and is at the mercy of the Law, whether the Law of Moses or a man-made law of his making.

Is there a law you have created, maybe it's a good thing, but you have placed it as a requirement for salvation? I urge you to search your heart and confirm to yourself and the Lord God that your faith is in Him alone for His Grace that brings salvation.
Water baptism
Smoking cussing and drinking (do not do it)
Church membership (local church)
tithing
Sacraments (penance, The eucharist, etc etc)

just to name a few
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
did they lose it. or did they ever have it?

Was their actual faith not in the law to begin with. which is why they fell so fast? You always resort to what you really trust in

Water baptism
Smoking cussing and drinking (do not do it)
Church membership (local church)
tithing
Sacraments (penance, The eucharist, etc etc)

just to name a few

Paul plainly said, "You have fallen from Grace."

Let us all decide for ourselves what he meant.

No need to argue among ourselves, the OP speaks for itself.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Paul plainly said, "You have fallen from Grace."

Yes. But he did not say they lost salvation.

Grace was offered. they fell.. did they fall before or after they received it

I say they never received it.
Let us all decide for ourselves what he meant.

No need to argue among ourselves, the OP speaks for itself.
if the op has a wrong part. then we need to discuss it..
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Yes. But he did not say they lost salvation.

Grace was offered. they fell.. did they fall before or after they received it

I say they never received it.

if the op has a wrong part. then we need to discuss it..

Ok, I'm sorry but we disagree.

Paul expresses that he marvels they have so soon removed themselves from Him unto another Gospel.

They can't remove themselves from something they were never a part of.

But I say again, let every man decide for himself, let your heart be your guide.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm sorry but we disagree.

Paul expresses that he marvels they have so soon removed themselves from Him unto another Gospel.

They can't remove themselves from something they were never a part of.

But I say again, let every man decide for himself, let your heart be your guide.
Yes, We disagree,


Paul did not contradict himself. The same paul who said we are sealed with the spirit the moment we are saved until we are ressurected. The same paul who said that God who started a good work in us will complete it. I can go on and on.

They moved to another gospel. it Never said they lost salvation or they ever had salvation. He also called them fools. he also said they believed they started in the spirit but perfected in the flesh. this is not the gospel

the gospel was handed to them when they went to that church, They had grace in their hands, and before it was able to save them, they moved to a different gospel. (the one they truly had faith in)

You put it in your op. so it must be discussed.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Yes, We disagree,


Paul did not contradict himself. The same paul who said we are sealed with the spirit the moment we are saved until we are ressurected. The same paul who said that God who started a good work in us will complete it. I can go on and on.

They moved to another gospel. it Never said they lost salvation or they ever had salvation. He also called them fools. he also said they believed they started in the spirit but perfected in the flesh. this is not the gospel

the gospel was handed to them when they went to that church, They had grace in their hands, and before it was able to save them, they moved to a different gospel. (the one they truly had faith in)

You put it in your op. so it must be discussed.

Well EG, what got you saved is what keeps you saved, that's our faith in the finished work of Christ.

That can be lost, God Himself said so, if you will accept what He has said.

Of course you can believe whatever you like.

Ezekiel 18:21-24

"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Well EG, what got you saved is what keeps you saved, that's our faith in the finished work of Christ.
Yes, focus on what Got us saved.

those saved

1. Are promised they will never perish (John 3, 6)
2. Are promised they have eternal life (John 3, 6)
3. Are promised they will never be lost (john 6)
4. Are promised they have been given every spiritual blessing
5. Are promised they have been given the spirit as a pledge until ressurection day
6. Are promised they will not suffer Gods wrath, and have passed from judgment to life.

I can go on and on and on.


That can be lost, God Himself said so, if you will accept what He has said.
No. It can not be lost. You do not lose faith in someone who has not let you down.

Now you an claim you have faith. and walk away. But as John said in his epistle. you never had it to begin with (you were never of us)
Of course you can believe whatever you like.

Ezekiel 18:21-24

"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."
lol. I will believe

1. My God keeps his promises
2. My God is omniscient, and does not make mistakes (he does not give a person a promise
3. This is talking about physical life. not spiritual life. it is also talking about a nation. remember, God promised he would destroy Ninevah, Jonah preached to them, they turned from their wicked ways, and they lived.


You either believe it all or you do not.

A person who does not have faith in God is called an antichrist.

John said they were never of us, if they were, they never would have departed.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Yes, focus on what Got us saved.

those saved

1. Are promised they will never perish (John 3, 6)
2. Are promised they have eternal life (John 3, 6)
3. Are promised they will never be lost (john 6)
4. Are promised they have been given every spiritual blessing
5. Are promised they have been given the spirit as a pledge until ressurection day
6. Are promised they will not suffer Gods wrath, and have passed from judgment to life.

I can go on and on and on.



No. It can not be lost. You do not lose faith in someone who has not let you down.

Now you an claim you have faith. and walk away. But as John said in his epistle. you never had it to begin with (you were never of us)

lol. I will believe

1. My God keeps his promises
2. My God is omniscient, and does not make mistakes (he does not give a person a promise
3. This is talking about physical life. not spiritual life. it is also talking about a nation. remember, God promised he would destroy Ninevah, Jonah preached to them, they turned from their wicked ways, and they lived.


You either believe it all or you do not.

A person who does not have faith in God is called an antichrist.

John said they were never of us, if they were, they never would have departed.

And God said the righteous man can turn from it, and die in his sins.

We agree on almost all the doctrines found in Scripture, EG, Let's not let this come between us.

I totally agree we have eternal security, as long as we exhibit faith to the end.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
And God said the righteous man can turn from it, and die in his sins.

We agree on almost all the doctrines found in Scripture, EG, Let's not let this come between us.

I totally agree we have eternal security, as long as we exhibit faith to the end.


while we both agree, whoever does not have faith in the end is not saved. so i will not argue anymore.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Paul plainly said, "You have fallen from Grace."

Let us all decide for ourselves what he meant.

No need to argue among ourselves, the OP speaks for itself.
Not saved and now lost, but that they started out with right Jesus and wright Gospel, but now trying to blend that with the Law
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Should the actual title of this thread be "Some Galatians Lost Their Salvation!"

If so, the premise of the thread is false.

There is no support anywhere in scripture for those who have been transferred spiritually into Christ to to be cast out. None, zero nada.

Here we have the vague phrase "fall from grace" said to mean "loss of salvation." What if it only means to depart from the gospel of grace and embrace the false gospel of grace plus works.

Galatians 5:4 Interpretive Translation
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from the gospel of Christ; you have fallen away from the gospel of grace!

The gospel of grace teaches works will not gain you entry into salvation, and works will not gain you exist from salvation.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Should the actual title of this thread be "Some Galatians Lost Their Salvation!"

If so, the premise of the thread is false.

There is no support anywhere in scripture for those who have been transferred spiritually into Christ to to be cast out. None, zero nada.

Here we have the vague phrase "fall from grace" said to mean "loss of salvation." What if it only means to depart from the gospel of grace and embrace the false gospel of grace plus works.

Galatians 5:4 Interpretive Translation
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from the gospel of Christ; you have fallen away from the gospel of grace!

The gospel of grace teaches works will not gain you entry into salvation, and works will not gain you exist from salvation.

Well, that was not my focus, it seems to be your focus.

I think I mentioned my purpose in the OP.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I think that Christian "man-made laws" are very much like the "man-made laws" of the Pharisees with one imoirtant distinction.

The Pharisees had the righteousness of God manifested through the Law in mind because that was the covenant they knew. So they made laws to try to keep the Law.

But our salvation is a manifested of God's righteousness apart from the Law as we ate under the New Covenant. At least the Jews understood the covenant under which they lived.

But I'd say today there are many man-made laws. Don't smoke, don't use Contemporary Worship music, don't use drums to worship God, wear a suit and tie, don't drink, go to church on Saturday (even Sunday attendance vould be legalistic and man-made depending on how it is viewed...as long as we do not forsake assembling together).
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
And God said the righteous man can turn from it, and die in his sins.

We agree on almost all the doctrines found in Scripture, EG, Let's not let this come between us.

I totally agree we have eternal security, as long as we exhibit faith to the end.
You are still living under the Law.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm sorry but we disagree.

Paul expresses that he marvels they have so soon removed themselves from Him unto another Gospel.

They can't remove themselves from something they were never a part of.

But I say again, let every man decide for himself, let your heart be your guide.
We have right now eternal life in Christ Jesus, and have been sealed by the Holy Spirit, so are eternally secured in Christ
 
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