Justification

[Hope of Glory]

I'm not sorry. In fact I am quite pleased we haven't met. Especially if you are the type that defends heresy.. :tonofbricks:

Am I mistaken, or is it not against the BB rules to sling out the "heresy" word, especially in the face of a doctrine that is backed up with Scripture?

Oh, well, we are told that many will fall away from the truth, and not accept the gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Hope of Glory]

If you can't see in Scripture that we are going to be rewarded for what we do whether good or bad, well I'm not sure what's left for you. That's just plainly what Scripture says.

I think he has the version with 2 Corinthians expurgated, because it obviously doesn't contain 2 Corinthians 5:10:

For we ["we" includes the writer, and this was written to saved people] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

God obviously didn't mean to include "receive according to that he hath done", especially with the "whether good or bad" part of it. So he's removed it.

 

[Cutter]

And until you can prove what I have said to be false using the Scriptures I will continue to believe what I believe.

Sorry, but you either overlook scripture or you distort it to suit your view, therefore sharing scripture with you does not help.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Maybe in your mind that is the case, but that doesn't make it so. And I would disagree that Scripture supports your teaching!

My mind and your mind has nothing to do with it. The fact is that Scripture does not teach an eternal salvation and a millennial salvation. That is a made up doctrine with no scriptural support. Your opinion does not matter. Your disagreement is irrelevant. Scripture does not teach it.

We live in this time where everyone thinks their opinions matter. We need to get over that. Your opinion does not matter. We must build theology based on the teachings of Scripture.

 

[Cutter]

My mind and your mind has nothing to do with it. The fact is that Scripture does not teach an eternal salvation and a millennial salvation. That is a made up doctrine with no scriptural support. Your opinion does not matter. Your disagreement is irrelevant. Scripture does not teach it.

We live in this time where everyone thinks their opinions matter. We need to get over that. Your opinion does not matter. We must build theology based on the teachings of Scripture.

And a HEARTY AMEN to that!

 

[Barnabas H.]

So you think it's perfectly okay to offend a brother in Christ and not have to apologize.

Not feeling very Humble-n-Texas tonight are we?

J.Jump & Cutter, we are getting weary of your bickering with each other. In case you forgot, the topic of this thread is Justification. Please stick to it and refrain from name calling. Discuss the topic at hand and not each other's personality. Thanks.

BJH
Your friendly BB Administrator

 

[swaimj]

Responses to J Jump quotes:

Basically what we believe is that you are saved by grace through faith apart from works to receive the free gift of everlasting life. The Holy Spirit takes your dead spirit and makes it alive.

So far, so good....

We believe that starts a journey called the race of the faith where you are to die to self and allow the manifested life of Christ to be lived out through your members.

I'm still on board....

We believe that saved individuals will be held accountable for what they have done whether good or bad in this body and that these rewards are for kingdom purposes.

I agree with the basic concepts here. Moving right along....

We believe that the road to destruction is broad and many there be that find it and the road to life is narrow and few there be that find it. We believe this is a warning to believers and has to do with life in the coming age which is the 1,000-year reign of Christ.

Jesus' words about the broad and narrow road are for believers? What? Believers can be on the broad road to destruction? STOP THIS TRAIN!!! I'm outta here! You really need to explain how you come to this conclusion from this passage.

 

[mmetts]

My mind and your mind has nothing to do with it. The fact is that Scripture does not teach an eternal salvation and a millennial salvation. That is a made up doctrine with no scriptural support. Your opinion does not matter. Your disagreement is irrelevant. Scripture does not teach it.

We live in this time where everyone thinks their opinions matter. We need to get over that. Your opinion does not matter. We must build theology based on the teachings of Scripture.

I love this guy!

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Responses to J Jump quotes:
So far, so good....

I'm still on board....

I agree with the basic concepts here. Moving right along....

Jesus' words about the broad and narrow road are for believers? What? Believers can be on the broad road to destruction? STOP THIS TRAIN!!! I'm outta here! You really need to explain how you come to this conclusion from this passage.

You can see where he gets his stuff from here. www.lampbroadcast.org

 

[Hope of Glory]

Jesus' words about the broad and narrow road are for believers? What? Believers can be on the broad road to destruction? STOP THIS TRAIN!!! I'm outta here! You really need to explain how you come to this conclusion from this passage.

Let me ask you a question: How can a person who has no life to lose lose his life?

That's what perishing (destruction) is: It's losing your life. An unsaved person doesn't have one to lose.

 

[Amy.G]

Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

The life we lose is our earthly, fleshly desires in favor of pleasing God.


Many have lost their lives (physical) for the sake of the gospel. Paul being one. But, he lost his "life" long before he was put to death in the body. He gave up his desires to do the will of God.

This is how we "lose" our lives. Just follow Paul's example.

 

[Cutter]

That's what perishing (destruction) is: It's losing your life. An unsaved person doesn't have one to lose.

What does an unsaved person have right now?
Are they not alive?
Paul said he was before he was saved.
Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

 

[Hope of Glory]

What does an unsaved person have right now?
Are they not alive?

Boy are we all in trouble! If that's what this verse is talking about, we're all going to perish physically! (Well, unless the Lord returns before we die.)

 

[J. Jump]

He gave up his desires to do the will of God.

This is how we "lose" our lives. Just follow Paul's example.

Amen! And those that lose their life now will find it. But those that choose to save their life will lose it.

So we can either choose to lose our life now (our desires to follow after the flesh) and be obedient to God and find life or we can save our life (pursue the desires of the flesh) and lose our life.

Amy what life is He talking about losing or finding based on our actions (losing/finding our own life) here and now?

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Let me ask you a question: How can a person who has no life to lose lose his life?

That's what perishing (destruction) is: It's losing your life. An unsaved person doesn't have one to lose.

Could He be refering to the temporary comforts of this world. sure he could.

 

[Pastor Larry]

That's what perishing (destruction) is: It's losing your life. An unsaved person doesn't have one to lose.

Really? Then what do they have? And what does it mean to be unsaved without a life? Prior to life, one is non-existent.

 

[TCGreek]

Ro 3:20 - Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Since this was written to believers, what is the context of justification in this passage?

1. In his Concise Theology, J.I. Packer defines Justification thus: "It is a judicial act of God pardoning sinners, accepting them as just, and so putting permanently right their previously estranged relationship with himself (Rom. 4:5; 3:9-24).

2. And I will add, "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom 5:1).

 

[Amy.G]

Amen! And those that lose their life now will find it. But those that choose to save their life will lose it.

So we can either choose to lose our life now (our desires to follow after the flesh) and be obedient to God and find life or we can save our life (pursue the desires of the flesh) and lose our life.

Amy what life is He talking about losing or finding based on our actions (losing/finding our own life) here and now?

The life we lose is the life we live right now that follows the desires of the flesh. We gain eternal life by putting our faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit who give us new desires to please God.


1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural or fleshly man (unsaved) does not care what God desires. But, the born again man has the conviction of the Holy Spirit (because He lives in him) and receives (understands) the spiritual things of God.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Really? Then what do they have? And what does it mean to be unsaved without a life? Prior to life, one is non-existent.

An unsaved person is already dead.

 

[J. Jump]

The life we lose is the life we live right now that follows the desires of the flesh. We gain eternal life by putting our faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit who give us new desires to please God.

Amy you are absolutely correct. The life that we MUST lose is this life (our desires/agenda, etc). And the reward for doing so is eternal life.

However if you are going to leave eternal life in the realm of salvation by grace through faith you have just placed a contradiction on Scripture, because dying to self is works. This is talking about works not a one-time faith in the Substitute.

The natural or fleshly man (unsaved) does not care what God desires.

This is not talking about unsaved as in destined for the lake of fire forever and ever and ever.

This is talkinga about the people that aren't dying to self. These are forever and ever and ever saved individuals that are walking by the flesh and not by the Spirit. If you are walking by the flesh you do not care what God desires.

But, the born again man has the conviction of the Holy Spirit (because He lives in him) and receives (understands) the spiritual things of God.

Just because a child of God is convicted of the Holy Spirit does not mean they are going to heed that conviction. And the more we rebel the quiter that conviction becomes until God will give you over to the lusts of your mind and death may not be far behind that.

But you are taking a works text and trying to make it fit into a non-works context.