Of course, but you need to realize that they are Baptists and you are in a Baptist forum. They don’t need to be tolerant of you... you’re their guest and you could be asked to leave at anytime you are persieved as indignant and insulting.
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Kenneth Miller: Respected Christian Champion of Evolution
- Thread starter Deadworm
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Lol. Did that post? I thought I deleted it.I’m confused, are you a fairy or a blueberry?!?
LOL... that’s funny.
This thread is really unfair to Dr. Miller because the video and the references are ten years old and scientifically obsolete and we do not know if he still holds this obsolete position that the chimp and the human have DNA that is about 98% the same. More recent advanced study of the DNA and genetics has shown the two DNAs are only about 70% or less alike, so the whole theory is scientifically obsolete:
Only 69% of the chimpanzee X chromosome was similar to human and only 43% of the Y chromosome. Chimp autosomal similarity to human on average was 70.7% with a range of 66.1% to 77.9%, depending on the chromosome (Table 1 and Fig. 1). Genome-wide, only 70% of the chimpanzee DNA was similar to human under the most optimal sequence-slice conditions.
Chimpanzees and humans share many localized protein-coding regions of high similarity. However, overall there is extreme DNA sequence discontinuity between the two genomes. The current study along with several other recent reports confirm this. This defies standard evolutionary time-scales and dogmatic presuppositions about a common ancestor.
https://answersingenesis.org/answer...analysis-of-chimpanzee-and-human-chromosomes/
Only 69% of the chimpanzee X chromosome was similar to human and only 43% of the Y chromosome. Chimp autosomal similarity to human on average was 70.7% with a range of 66.1% to 77.9%, depending on the chromosome (Table 1 and Fig. 1). Genome-wide, only 70% of the chimpanzee DNA was similar to human under the most optimal sequence-slice conditions.
Chimpanzees and humans share many localized protein-coding regions of high similarity. However, overall there is extreme DNA sequence discontinuity between the two genomes. The current study along with several other recent reports confirm this. This defies standard evolutionary time-scales and dogmatic presuppositions about a common ancestor.
https://answersingenesis.org/answer...analysis-of-chimpanzee-and-human-chromosomes/
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
My statements were contingent, and are mine alone. I don't speak for all Baptists. Do you believe God created the universe? Does Miller? If so, do you (does he) believe God used intelligence to do so? Or do you (does he) believe God created without design, without intelligence? How you answer these will determine how my comments apply to you and to Miller. If you (if he) believe(s) God created the universe with intelligence and design, then to argue against that in the public arena would be absurd, even hypocritical. How that intelligent designing plays out is a different question, but not one to legislate for or against regarding pet theories. Until every step has been thoroughly established, you cannot simply rule out possibilities because you find them disagreeable. Well, you could, but that would be dishonest, or worse. The vestigial imaginings of evolutionism have not done it proud.
The same type of studies state that we and earth worms as 90 % Dna same! I think that life would much in common, especially among the high life forms on earth, as our Creator used a Template in His design of all creatures here...
You may want to study up on St. Francis of Assisi. He was always giving things names like Brother Sun, Sister Moon, Brother Wolf, Sister Deer... yada yada. Maybe there is room for Cousin Worm, Sister Slug ...
ONLY would count for them if they had received jesus thru faith, trusting in Him alone to save them, not being catholic, water baptized, did good works etc!You may want to study up on St. Francis of Assisi. He was always giving things names like Brother Sun, Sister Moon, Brother Wolf, Sister Deer... yada yada. Maybe there is room for Cousin Worm, Sister Slug ...
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Your comment illustrates why evangelicals are now flocking to the pro-evolution camp. If you watched the video carefully, you would see that it is precisely the genetic fusion of human genes at number 2 that demonstrates a common ape ancestor. His diagram illustrates the exact fused genetic markers that enable geneticists can prove that this fusion occurred! This discovery now reflects the scientific consensus and creationists have no sensible answer to it.
btw, Sir Francis Collins, director of the ground-breaking genome project, is a devout evangelical and Gregor Mendel, an Augustinian monk, is the father of the science of genetics and indeed invented this science while praying and meditating in his monastic garden.
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You seem to juxtapose Creationism with Evolution. Even Christian Darwinists are Creationists. What is it you believe?
Did God create the universe? Did He create man? Was it His plan to create man, or did they just happen because of the properties God infused into his creation? Are men sinners? Did Jesus come to save them? Was Jesus a real man? Did He rise again the 3rd day? etc. etc.
The New Jerusalem Bible is well respected for its unique sensitivity to Hebrew nuance. This sensitivity is illustrated by its translation of the most relevant biblical text to the evolution-creationism debate:
"I [Lady Wisdom] was beside the master craftsman, delighting him day after day, ever at play in his presence, at play everywhere on his earth, delighting to be with the children of men (Prov.8:30-31)."
Wisdom here is personified and speaks as if She is a 2nd Person of the godhead. This personification prompted the earliest doctrine of the Trinity (Greek: "trias") in 180 AD as expressed by Theophilus bishop of Antioch, the church that discipled Paul: "God, God's Word (= rist), and God's Wisdom." Note the Wisdom precedes the Holy Spirit as a member of the Trinity. The NT of course never uses the word "Trinity." Lady Wisdom in Proverbs functions in part the way Mother Nature does in modern parlance.
The biblical concept of creation as divine "play" in principle allows for divine experimentation through evolution, random evolutionary processes, mass extinctions, and evolutionary dead ends. In the poetic Genesis narrative God does not simply speak vegetative and animal life into existence; rather, God decrees, "Let the earth bring forth" vegetative and then animal life (1:11, 24). But this narrative does not explain how the earth brought forth this life. This omission leaves the door open to the divine use of evolutionary processes.
It is important to recognize the scholarly consensus that the first creation story is a poetic narrative created for use in the Temple liturgy and intended to justify Sabbath rest on the 7th day. Note the liturgical repetition of the phrases, "And God said....and it was so...and God saw that it was good...Evening came, morning followed, the first (second, third, etc.) day." I believe God used evolutionary processes in the development of life forms. By like Kenneth Miller, I also believe that the Big Picture reflects Intelligent Design and divine guidance of this process as a whole. I don't believe genetic mutation and natural selection are sufficient principles to explain the evolution of creation. Science does not yet grasp the nature and principles that govern consciousness and life energy and I believe that these unrecognized principles were vital to the evolutionary process.
The Bible teaches us to be honest in every way, including intellectual honesty and commands us to love God with all our mind as well as our heart. This means we are required to endure the discomfort of loose ends and conflicting evidence in our belief system and the discomfort and doubts that this honesty brings. The "fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom," but so is the willingness to admit exactly what we know and don't know through current rational processes. I believe the Holy Spirit is grieved by the refusal of most evangelicals to even consider the case for evolution by watching videos featuring experts like Ken Miller. I started this thread to demonstrate this indemic evangelical dishonesty in refusing to even consider contrary evidence seriously.
Leia mais em: https://www.bibliacatolica.com.br/en/new-jerusalem-bible/proverbs/8/
God created Adam as an act of fiat/special direct creation, not by him evolving from primates!
There is no real scientific evidence to support evolution, especially in regards to orogin of life, and how humans arrived!
I will respond to three things. One, no one discipled Paul. He made it very clear that He was taught directly by Christ Himself, like the other apostles. So, you invoke Paul's name in antithesis of the Trinity in vain.
Two: You presume the scientific community is unified concerning Evolution as if it's too obvious to be denied, and they are not. They are united only in the a priori assumption of Naturalism. There is no need to read Evolution into Genesis 1, and intellectual honesty would compel you to agree with that.
Three: God spoke directly and plainly, and He did so for our salvation. So let your yes be yes, and your no be no. To say yes and then appeal to 'nuance' to mean something else is a lie.
There is no real reason to see genesis other than the traditional way as describing liters/historical fashion, as there was a real Adam and Eve, real Fall. Bringing into scriptures this accomodation as accepted facts evolution really makes one call into question just what is to be accepted in Bible as being historical, and what is myth and allogary?
I doubt if Miller stands by his comments of 10 years ago since we now know that ape DNA is less than 70% like human DNA. Yes, we have 2 eyes, 2 ears, 1 nose, 1 mouth, etc, but so what? Do you have anything less obsolete?
God created a template for creating man and the Apes, why would they not share in arms, legs, nose, eyes etc?
You are sadly misinformed. In fact, that the evolutionary affinities between humans, apes, and chimps are even more devastating for an anti-evolutionary stance that you imagine. Consider this quotation about primate genetic relationships from the prestigious Smithsonian website:
"While the genetic difference between individual humans today is minuscule – about 0.1%, on average – study of the same aspects of the chimpanzee genome indicates a difference of about 1.2%. The bonobo (Pan paniscus), which is the close cousin of chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes), differs from humans to the same degree. The DNA difference with gorillas, another of the African apes, is about 1.6%. Most importantly, chimpanzees, bonobos, and humans all show this same amount of difference from gorillas. A difference of 3.1% distinguishes us and the African apes from the Asian great ape, the orangutan. How do the monkeys stack up? All of the great apes and humans differ from rhesus monkeys, for example, by about 7% in their DNA."
Can I help it that the Smithsonian has obsolete information? The DNA correlation is less than 70% according to modern scientific studies. This was linked above several days ago.
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