What's with you? I am not saying run anywhere. I am saying obey God Christ is not glorified when Christians steal. Take a stand all the way (instead of relying on some sense of entitlement).
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Kentucky governor tells county clerks: Do your jobs or get fired
- Thread starter Zaac
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What's with you? I am not saying run anywhere. I am saying obey God Christ is not glorified when Christians steal. Take a stand all the way (instead of relying on some sense of entitlement).
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You keep saying one should quit. I say they should stay and fight.
When did God give anybody extra-Biblical revelation to quit?
Nobody said anything about stealing, Zaac,
Take a stand by running away? How does that work, exactly?
What's next? Cure cancer by smoking?
You're not taking a stand by quitting when they already want you out of there. They're purging government of Americans. One less American isn't going to help.
You do what you want. If it's me, I'm going to stay and fight until they throw me out or carry me out.
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I'm not Zaac.
I am not saying anyone has to quit. I am saying that if you do not do your job but still demand money for performing that job then you are not only a thief but also an idiot.
What are you talking about??? I said take a stand by not doing that job and making the effort not only to be a light in a dark world through your action but also to share the gospel.
You are the one stating that Christians should take jobs and not do the work as some kind of fight for political rightness. I am saying put on the armor of God and stand, not run to our American sense of entitlement.
I am not saying anyone has to quit. I am saying that if you do not do your job but still demand money for performing that job then you are not only a thief but also an idiot.
What are you talking about??? I said take a stand by not doing that job and making the effort not only to be a light in a dark world through your action but also to share the gospel.
You are the one stating that Christians should take jobs and not do the work as some kind of fight for political rightness. I am saying put on the armor of God and stand, not run to our American sense of entitlement.
And I think you're an idiot if you think quitting is going to make some sort of statement when they already want you to quit.
Quote me. Go ahead. Show us where I said anything at all like that. If your argument is so weak that you now have to misrepresent my position and make things up to attribute to me, then you have no case.
"Stand" by quitting.
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I have called you neither idiot nor coward (yet you call me both). But if I understand you correctly then this is a good example of your stand and fight mentality. You have repeated misrepresented what I have said (which is cowardice…not that you are a coward, but that that particular method is one employed often by cowards who cannot discuss matters).
Here is how: You repeated represented my opinion of what is appropriate in this situation as “standing by quitting.” This is not what I said. I did say that Christians should not hold jobs that they are unwilling to do. I did say that if they are in jobs that they are unwilling to perform they should quit, but that they should do so in a matter that would highlight Christ. I know you take exception here, and that is fine.
You are speaking of political rightness, not Christianity. American does not equal Christian...this much should be very clear by now. My statement stands.
The bottom line is that we believe the same on the issue at hand (as far as I know from other threads, we hold very similar and conservative beliefs). We disagree on how a Christian should handle themselves when placed in situations where they cannot perform the duties associated with their employment. As hard as I try, I cannot understand how collecting a pay check for work one refuses to do can be anything but theft and a “black eye” towards the Christian faith. We simply disagree.
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JonC said:
Actually, I didn't. You admit in this very post that they should quit.
Which is exactly what I said you said.
And how does quitting "highlight Christ"?
Actually, I'm speaking of both.
Again, show us where I ever made such a statement.
Thanks for the correction.
You are right that I said Christians who are holding jobs that they cannot perform with a good conscience should quit. You are wrong in leaving it there and going on….and on….and on. I didn't JUST say they should quit.
When Christians take a stand (not a self-centered “I want it my way” stand) for Christ, when they do not give in to sin and they do not give in to selfishness but they willingly stand for truth - and when Christians share the gospel with the world - then they are “highlighting Christ.” I apologize if you don’t like the word “highlight,” but I think it appropriate. You see, we are to be Light in a dark world. Others are to see Christ in us. It is not that we are, as you say, Americans fighting being purged from the government. It is that we are children of God standing for Truth amongst a world of lies.
Yes, you are. You make absolutely no distinction between the two.
Maybe I misunderstood. You are saying that they shouldn’t quit, and I take it that they shouldn’t do work against their conscience…..so are you saying that they should refuse pay? I haven’t thought of that….I guess that would keep them from stealing by collecting pay for duties they were unwilling to perform….it’s a bit weird, but whatever.
Out of curiosity, do you think that that an infantryman who becomes a pacifist should remain in the infantry and collect a check even when he refuses to deploy? Should the military discharge him or keep him on the rolls?
I think most are. Ours will issue certificates, BTW, but will perform no marriages at all.
JonC said:
You still have not explained how quitting, when they already want you to quit, is a "stand".
It does not matter what other people already want. In fact, most do not really care about who the local clerk is (their agenda exceeds that position).
When I say take a stand I mean refusing to hold a job that carries duties one believes to be immoral. In that refusal, I think that Christians can find avenues to share the gospel message and present themselves a sanctified and holy people. The purity of the believer, their holy lifestyles, is what validates the gospel message to the lost. This is what I mean by standing for Christ instead of standing against sin.
I know we may disagree, and I hope that you understand my position in a better light. Also, I apologize for the sharpness of my responses - this is an issue that concerns me, and it is an emotional issue for me....it played a part in my retiring from the military last year (the military has accepted SSM for over a year now). Anyway, God bless and if we can't keep it civil then lets just discuss other topics on other threads and leave this one alone.
JonC said:
Whatever.
I understand it just fine. I just think it's cowardly.
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Not really, JDF, those were not my conclusions. They are biblical principles. We are called to be holy, and this is a witness of Christ to the world, and we are to "disciple as we go." (e.g., Matthew 5:14; Romans 12:1; 1 Peter 2:9). We typically fall into error when we think we can blend Christianity with the secular (like your transition between “Christian” and “American”) and/or when we think that we can separate our lives into a secular side and a Christian side (like responding “whatever” to biblical principles when dealing with political issues).
I know you think it cowardly, you made that very clear. I’ll try to show you (although I know you will disagree) why I do not feel I was a coward for leaving that job. First, I knew my job well. I was apprehensive about getting out and starting anew and it was not something that I had planned on doing at that stage in my career. Second, I was financially secure in the military. This is not the case in the civilian world. I gave up that security, took a pay cut, and had a lot of sleepless nights, all to follow my convictions. All through this I was vocal about issues, immorality, and the gospel. And you see this as the work of a coward because I quit. I have been deployed, cleared minefields, been shot at, left my family behind many times, yet I am a coward because I chose to leave the service when remaining would compromise my own values. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that I was courageous, but I did trust in God’s provision. I did try my best to point others to Christ. I’m a coward to you? Well, so be it…I don’t even know you.
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the way this discussion is going - it appears that marriage license is the only duty of a county clerk. I would say it is less than 5% of the work a clerk preforms.
Now, maybe, we could take issuing a license out of the job description.
If the Governor is making such a big issue, let his secretary issue the license.
:thumbsup: That'd be a good idea. Or just put them online (like car tags, or fishing license....heck, some get married with the same frequency anyway and a license that recognizes SSM can't be more valuable than my fishing license).
Bottom line is that there really is no such thing as a SSM. A marriage does not have to be a Christian marriage, but it is the union between opposites. It is really a civil union that the world calls marriage. What I worry about more is the steady downgrading of society. When SSM was recognized federally (over a year ago) and then forced on states, what happened was an official recognition of what had really already occurred. Television (both entertainment and news) had already taught a generation that it was normal.
I am actually more appalled that the federal government assumes the role of dictator on this (and many other issues) than I am about the world seeing sin as normal. States are too dependent on federal dollars, I suppose, but this has been out of hand for decades.
I don't know for sure if the Postal Service has sabbatarian mail carriers who are exempt from working on Saturdays ( I would presume there are a few such cases), but this license situation compares to suddenly requiring every carrier to work some Saturdays regardless of beliefs. One day there is no requirement to go against your beliefs on your job; the next day it all changes-- violate your beliefs or you're fired.
Originally Posted by Zaac
Kentucky governor tells county clerks: Do your jobs or get fired
But its okay if the POTUS does not does his job.
Kentucky governor tells county clerks: Do your jobs or get fired
But its okay if the POTUS does not does his job.
Actually, just as you dishonestly claimed I said one should take a job and then not perform the duties expected of him, I never even brought up your military career. Frankly, I don't really care.
We were talking about the hypothetical situation of a county clerk exercising his discretion in performing a duty he feels is immoral and at odds with the laws of his state.