Kentucky governor tells county clerks: Do your jobs or get fired

[targus]

For those who say that someone should be forced to do something against their conscience such as issuing the paperwork for SSM...

Would you of the same opinion if say a government application was needed in order to obtain an abortion?

Would you also say that all government workers should just do their job and issue the abortion permits or quit their job?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

For those who say that someone should be forced to do something against their conscience such as issuing the paperwork for SSM...

Would you of the same opinion if say a government application was needed in order to obtain an abortion?

Would you also say that all government workers should just do their job and issue the abortion permits or quit their job?

I would do everything asked of me up to the point where I would be required to sin or to affirm sin.

At that point, I would politely say "No" and explain why.

 

[JonC]

We were talking about the hypothetical situation.....

You were talking about hypothetical situations. Are you so blind not to see that these situations are not hypothetical? Do you really have your head that far in the sand? This is the problem with people like you - it's always hypothetical. When faced with real life situations you take the defense of "I was speaking hypothetically"!!! What a cowardly and foolish path you take: you make bold statements, but when confronted with real situations your defence is you were only speaking hypothetically....only playing pretend...all make believe. Good grief...man up.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You were talking about hypothetical situations.

You said "If you believe it is unchristian to do a certain task required by your position". That's a reference to a hypothetical situation.

I merely responded to your premise.

Do you really have your head that far in the sand?

Better than having my head up my fourth point of contact, like you.

This is the problem with people like you - it's always hypothetical.

And I already quoted your post, showing that you're the one who referred to a hypothetical situation.

When faced with real life situations you take the defense of "I was speaking hypothetically"!!!

Actually, I didn't say that. I pointed out that you brought up a hypothetical situation and then demonstrated it by quoting your post.

What a cowardly and foolish path you take

And you have repeatedly lied about what I said.

you make bold statements, but when confronted with real situations your defence is you were only speaking hypothetically

Actually, you're the one who brought up a hypothetical situation.

Good grief...man up.

Yeah, congratulations on being able to get married now.

And in case anybody missed it, here's his own words again:

"If you believe it is unchristian to do a certain task required by your position"

Note the words "If you believe..." and "a certain task". Hypothetical.

 

[JonC]

What I am referring to is your statements applied to reality. You said "I don't care" .... "I was speaking hypothetical." In your hypothetical world I am sure you have a valid hypothetical view. But here in reality things work differently from fantasy land. Here in reality I left a job for similar reasons, people are struggling with the issue, American and Christian are not blended terms and no one seems too concerned about your hypothetical world. Maybe you should see if someone will make a "let's play pretend" forum for you to express your hypothetical opinions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Maybe you should see if someone will make a "let's play pretend" forum for you to express your hypothetical opinions.

Once again, Princess:

If you believe it is unchristian to do a certain task required by your position

"If you believe..." + "...a certain task" = hypothetical.

 

[JonC]

Yet you run like a child when faced with the application of your opinion. Your hypothesis fails the test in reality.

Hey, this is mildly fun, but I have real man work to do I'll check back later.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Use of Time]

JDF

Forget marriage licenses, you need to figure out how to have a conversation with a brother in Christ without turning into a mean spirited lunatic every time a conversation doesn't go your way. The Bible isn't a menu you know. It's kind of hilarious to listen to your passionate views on taking a stand against marriage licenses while you hurl insults at fellow believers.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

JDF

Forget marriage licenses, you need to figure out how to have a conversation with a brother in Christ without turning into a mean spirited lunatic every time a conversation doesn't go your way. The Bible isn't a menu you know. It's kind of hilarious to listen to your passionate views on taking a stand against marriage licenses while you hurl insults at fellow believers.

Waste of time, what do you think about his repeated lying and name calling?

What do you think about his "we have to take a stand for Christ" pitch, while lying about me and calling me names?

Sounds like a double standard to me, Waste Of Time.

 

[Use of Time]

Waste of time, what do you think about his repeated lying and name calling?

That you provoked. He made every effort to remain cordial with you but you responded as you usually do...childishly.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Keep that witness strong. You're doing great.

And you be sure to keep up that hypocrisy. You're a great cautionary tale.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

That you provoked.

How did I provoke his lying?

 

[JonC]

Here is our first interaction on this thread.

I'm not sure "I surrender" qualifies as "conviction".

I don't mean surrender. I mean stand up for truth without compromising

"I quit" isn't standing up for anything. It's surrendering. No wonder America died. Too many people willing to just roll over.

Not "I quit" but "I cannot in good conscience hold this position because I believe it would advocate sin. At one time in my life this would not have been a problem, but now it is because ....(gospel message followed by a display of your conviction - that is, a resignation

That led to this:

And I think you're an idiot ….

Better than having my head up my fourth point of contact, like you.

Yeah, congratulations on being able to get married now.

And of course post# 49 where JohnDeerFan accused me of pedophilia. (the post, and my reply, are gone. I have a screenshot of the original post and am not sure why my response was deleted).

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Here is our first interaction on this thread.

I notice you chose not to begin at the beginning?

Why begin with my first response without being honest enough to begin with the post I was responding to?

Also, I notice that you quoted one of my posts where I responded to your name calling in kind, but then chose not to quote your posts in which you engaged in name calling.

Funny how you only quote the posts you think you can use to make me look bad, but you don't post any of your own name calling or lies about me.

But I guess as many times as you've lied about me in this thread, one more shouldn't hurt, right?

And then, I thought you said you were going to bow out. I guess that's yet another lie.

 

[JonC]

I notice you chose not to begin at the beginning?

That was the beginning of our interaction. The post that you responded to was not directed to you, but here it is:

I wish the federal government had the same view as this Kentucky governor. If one has convictions that prohibit carrying out what a job requires, then one has convictions enough to quit, (I'm a bit tired of Christians taking a lukewarm stand for what they believe to be right. If you believe it is unchristian to do a certain task required by your position, then it is probably unchristian to accept pay for filling that position as well).

And no, JDF, I did not respond to you "in kind." Look through the posts and point out one instance where I said you had your head up your "forth point of contact," implied that your were gay and "could get married now," or that if I were a child "you'd be trying......." that you are a pedeofile. I did respond inappropriately and mean spiritedly, and I apologized for my words (and explained why I allowed my emotions to overcome my character). But I NEVER responded to you "in kind" regarding those statements I just posted.

And then, I thought you said you were going to bow out. I guess that's yet another lie.

I actually did. Had to work on an a/c unit but am back. I was not going to respond to you, but I noticed that your threads have been edited and ultimately removed (along with my response). I just stopped back in to make sure that others realize your character before engaging you in dialogue (that you did call me a homosexual, an idiot, a coward, and a pediophile for daring to disagree with you...yet you call yourself "Christian").

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I did respond inappropriately and mean spiritedly, and I apologized for my words

Yes, you did. And that was very big of you.

The problem is that, not only did you not stop, you actually got worse.

And, by the way, isn't it funny that when you apologized, I accepted it, but when I retracted a statement I made because it was over the line, you continue to use it as a cudgel against me?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

For those who are interested, here are a few tiny little details Jon chose to leave out of his recollection of our conversation:

If one has convictions that prohibit carrying out what a job requires, then one has convictions enough to quit,

Here, we see the reference to the hypothetical situation he insists he never brought up.

That's much better than "I won't do the job but pay me anyway."

Here, we see the first time he attributes an argument to me that I never made.

Take a stand all the way (instead of relying on some sense of entitlement).

Once again, attributing an argument to me that I never made.

I am saying that if you do not do your job but still demand money for performing that job then you are not only a thief but also an idiot.

Not only dishonestly attributing an argument to me that I never made, but also the first example of his name calling.

You are the one stating that Christians should take jobs and not do the work as some kind of fight for political rightness.

Dishonestly attributing statements to me that I never made. I challenged him to quote where I said anything like this. He could not.

We disagree on how a Christian should handle themselves when placed in situations where they cannot perform the duties associated with their employment. As hard as I try, I cannot understand how collecting a pay check for work one refuses to do can be anything but theft and a “black eye” towards the Christian faith. We simply disagree.

Yet again, dishonestly attributing an argument to me that I never made, even after I explained to him several times that I never said any such thing.

Do you really have your head that far in the sand?

Ad hom.

This is the problem with people like you - it's always hypothetical. When faced with real life situations you take the defense of "I was speaking hypothetically"!!! What a cowardly and foolish path you take

Notice that he calls me "cowardly and foolish" for responding to his hypothetical premise.

Good grief...man up.

Ad hom.

Maybe you should see if someone will make a "let's play pretend" forum for you to express your hypothetical opinions.

Again, here he is insulting me for responding to his hypothetical premise.

 

[JonC]

When I say take a stand I mean refusing to hold a job that carries duties one believes to be immoral. In that refusal, I think that Christians can find avenues to share the gospel message and present themselves a sanctified and holy people. The purity of the believer, their holy lifestyles, is what validates the gospel message to the lost. This is what I mean by standing for Christ instead of standing against sin.

I know we may disagree, and I hope that you understand my position in a better light. Also, I apologize for the sharpness of my responses - this is an issue that concerns me, and it is an emotional issue for me....it played a part in my retiring from the military last year (the military has accepted SSM for over a year now). Anyway, God bless and if we can't keep it civil then lets just discuss other topics on other threads and leave this one alone.

Whatever.

I know we may disagree, and I hope that you understand my position in a better light. Also, I apologize for the sharpness of my responses - this is an issue that concerns me, and it is an emotional issue for me....it played a part in my retiring from the military last year (the military has accepted SSM for over a year now). Anyway, God bless and if we can't keep it civil then lets just discuss other topics on other threads and leave this one alone.

I understand it just fine. I just think it's cowardly.

Why did you call me a homosexual? Why a pedeophile? I did refer to your path as cowardly and idiotic (which I believe it was as evidenced by where it took you on this thread) but I was not speaking of you. We all do idiotic and cowardly things at times. But you called me an idiot and a coward. I know you don't understand the difference, but it is there. Please don't insult me by trying to imply that I respond to you "in kind"...we are not the same "kind" at all. In fact, I challenge you to find one post where I accused another brother of homosexuality or having inappropriate relations with children. Let's just leave it at that challenge.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Why did you call me a homosexual? Why a pedeophile? I did refer to your path as cowardly and idiotic (which I believe it was as evidenced by where it took you on this thread) but I was not speaking of you. We all do idiotic and cowardly things at times. But you called me an idiot and a coward. I know you don't understand the difference, but it is there. Please don't insult me by trying to imply that I respond to you "in kind"...we are not the same "kind" at all.

I no longer accept your apology. It's clear that you were not sincere.

 

[Use of Time]

He actually apologized, you didn't. You tried to hide it real fast because you probably realized it went too far. Nowhere at all did he come close to matching that level of disrespect but he still took the higher road and was the better man in the end. You are rabidly attempting damage control.

Whatever points you think you made in this thread might as well end up in the garbage as soon as you started using pedophilia as an insult. You talk Christian conviction out of one side of your mouth but then spew hateful and disgusting garbage out the other in the same thread. I don't always agree with JonC but at least he has this little thing called accountability.