Pastor KevinR
New Member
Ed, I've heard this verse mentioned by our KJVO friends for many moons, but it never crossed my pea brain that it might refer to The Incarnate Word; Jesus! John 1:1; 1 John 1:1 (etc)
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King James Bible vs New age versions
- Thread starter Bro. Tim L. Bynum
- Start date
skanwmatos
New Member
Sorry, but the Hebrew word for "word" here is "'imrah" meaning "sayings." It is a reference to the revelatory word of God, the "sayings" as given by the Prophets. The Hebrew word "'imrah" comes from the Hebrew word "'amar" meaning "to bring forth" or "to say." We see this in Genesis 4:23 where the word is translated "speech."
There are ten distinct Hebrew words used in the OT to give us a very detailed view of God's word.
Way (Hebrew derek), Testimonies (Hebrew 'eduth), Precepts (Hebrew pikkudim), Commandments (Hebrew mizvah), Word (Hebrew 'imrah), Law (Hebrew torah), Judgment (Hebrew mispat), Righteousness (Hebrew zedek), Statute (Hebrew hok), and Word (Hebrew dabar).
See Psalm 119 where all ten of these words are used in reference to the written word of God.
There are ten distinct Hebrew words used in the OT to give us a very detailed view of God's word.
Way (Hebrew derek), Testimonies (Hebrew 'eduth), Precepts (Hebrew pikkudim), Commandments (Hebrew mizvah), Word (Hebrew 'imrah), Law (Hebrew torah), Judgment (Hebrew mispat), Righteousness (Hebrew zedek), Statute (Hebrew hok), and Word (Hebrew dabar).
See Psalm 119 where all ten of these words are used in reference to the written word of God.
Bro. Tim L. Bynum
New Member
Again I say...THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ARE
NOT THE SAME !!!
The NIV is not the bible,they`re not the same.
Just like the Promise Keepers,is NOT the local
church,they`re not the same.
Salvation by GRACE is not the same as salvation by works,they`re different.
Always remember and never forget,Psalms 119:128 " God says "...I HATE EVERY FALSE WAY.
Doesn`t hate the people,just the false way they
are pushing.
Who are the #1 pushers of the false way that God hates,Bro Tim...I`m so glad you asked...give me a drum roll.......Westcott & Hort,Zondervon
Publishing,Benny Hinn,The Charismatic movement,
Pink Tea Panty Waste Preachers,Billy Graham and
his New Living Bible,Free Will Baptist that
preach you can lose your salvation,Russelites,
Campellites,Catholics,Mormons,Musslims...
I better stop there for now,so you can reply
with your normal 2nd Timothy 2:23...foolish
and unlearned questions...that do gender strifes.
NOT THE SAME !!!
The NIV is not the bible,they`re not the same.
Just like the Promise Keepers,is NOT the local
church,they`re not the same.
Salvation by GRACE is not the same as salvation by works,they`re different.
Always remember and never forget,Psalms 119:128 " God says "...I HATE EVERY FALSE WAY.
Doesn`t hate the people,just the false way they
are pushing.
Who are the #1 pushers of the false way that God hates,Bro Tim...I`m so glad you asked...give me a drum roll.......Westcott & Hort,Zondervon
Publishing,Benny Hinn,The Charismatic movement,
Pink Tea Panty Waste Preachers,Billy Graham and
his New Living Bible,Free Will Baptist that
preach you can lose your salvation,Russelites,
Campellites,Catholics,Mormons,Musslims...
I better stop there for now,so you can reply
with your normal 2nd Timothy 2:23...foolish
and unlearned questions...that do gender strifes.
....he's baaaaaaaaaack! Should I say, "welcome"?Originally posted by Bro. Tim L. Bynum:
Again I say...THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ARE
NOT THE SAME !!!
"Thing That Are Different Are Not The Same" What if I have a Chevette and a Corvette? They are different, but they are vehicles (as BV's) which carry me to my destination. I'd rather ride in the newer improved edition than the Model T
The KJV renderings of the sign placed above the head of Jesus on the cross:
Matthew 27:37 -- And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Mark 15:26 -- And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Luke 23:38 -- And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
John 19:19 -- And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
If "THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ARE NOT THE SAME !!!" [copied and pasted from your quote], then which of the 3-- at least-- of the KJV renderings of the words on the sign are lies?
Charles Meadows
New Member
Psalm 138:2 raises some very interesting issues.
The Hebrew says He has magnified " 'al kal shemka imratehka" .
This is kinda weird. The 'al means "on" or "over" here. The kal is a construct noun which is joined by a maqqef to "your name". Kal construct does not usually join to a singular noun! Most scholars (oh no, scholars!) feel that there has been "vkal" left out - that would make the verse read something like, you have magnified (above all) your name AND your word. This really makes more sense given the other verses in the Psalm.
I usually go with the KJB reading in most controversies but on this one I have to differ.
The LXX is not much help here with the Greek saying basically you have exalted above everything "your holy name".
By the way Ed that was a nice insight about the word being Jesus. Never thought of that! Skan is correct on imrah - it's derived from "'mr" - this has attestation not only in Hebrew and Aramaic but Arabic and Amharic as well. It means to say or reveal in such as way that attention is drawn to the revealer. Imrah pretty much always refers to God's word - the word in its entirety and not separate words.
Still a nice parallel.
Any thoughts?
The Hebrew says He has magnified " 'al kal shemka imratehka" .
This is kinda weird. The 'al means "on" or "over" here. The kal is a construct noun which is joined by a maqqef to "your name". Kal construct does not usually join to a singular noun! Most scholars (oh no, scholars!) feel that there has been "vkal" left out - that would make the verse read something like, you have magnified (above all) your name AND your word. This really makes more sense given the other verses in the Psalm.
I usually go with the KJB reading in most controversies but on this one I have to differ.
The LXX is not much help here with the Greek saying basically you have exalted above everything "your holy name".
By the way Ed that was a nice insight about the word being Jesus. Never thought of that! Skan is correct on imrah - it's derived from "'mr" - this has attestation not only in Hebrew and Aramaic but Arabic and Amharic as well. It means to say or reveal in such as way that attention is drawn to the revealer. Imrah pretty much always refers to God's word - the word in its entirety and not separate words.
Still a nice parallel.
Any thoughts?
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
The KJV1611 is the Bible.
The KJV1769 is different.
Therefore the KJV1769 is NOT the bible.
Hey, no fair knocking my Bible like that
The KJV renderings of the sign placed above the head of Jesus on the cross:
Matthew 27:37 -- And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Mark 15:26 -- And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Luke 23:38 -- And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
John 19:19 -- And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
If "THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ARE NOT THE SAME !!!" [copied and pasted from your quote], then which of the 3-- at least-- of the KJV renderings of the words on the sign are lies? </font>[/QUOTE]So answer this for us, Alcott, was John the Beloved the only disciple besides Peter to witness the crucifixion? That might explain the difference, huh? Uh, Matthew, Mark, and uh, definitely Luke, weren't actually there.
Ooooo! Another big KJB error! Ooooo!
Different writers, different accounts.
If the mv's give the exact words in each "Gospel" account, then somebody is misquoting the writer, uh, couldn't be copywrite infringement, so, uh, it must be just plain ol' misrepresentationm on the mv part.
Alcott agrees of course. He's demonstrating that Bro TB's analogy is flawed as far as translations is concerned. It shouln't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that one outOriginally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
If "THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ARE NOT THE SAME !!!"
Different writers, different accounts.
Tim L. Bynum, I would suggest that you believe with ALL your heart in the Lord Jesus Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]Oooo! Now let's see if they rake you over the coals for questioning his salvation?
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Thank you.
Earlier in the week i put "word of God"
into a search engine on the KJV1769.
There are 48 matches. I read them trying to
vision a book (the Holy Bible) in those
places -- it didn't work. Some of those
verses seemed better if you see
Jesus in them.
Heb 11:3 (kJV1769):
Through faith we understand that
the worlds were framed by the
word of God, so that things which are
seen were not made of things which do
appear.
I sure have a hard time seeing
the Bible here; it is easy to see Jesus,
before the creation posed ready to
create the physical and spiritual worlds.
1Jo 2:14 (KJV1769):
I have written unto you, fathers,
because ye have known him that is
from the beginning. I have written
unto you, young men, because
ye are strong, and the word of God
abideth in you, and ye have overcome
the wicked one.
Sorry brothers & sisters, i have a hard time
having a book living in me. I'd sure rather
think that it is the Living Word of God:
Messiah Yeshua. Amen, somebody?
Again, I say:
"Word of God" has two meanings in the Bible.
1. the written word of God, the Holy Bible
2. the living word of God, Christ Iesus
Bro. Tim L. Bynum
New Member
Chevette,,Corvette...you can`t see the difference...you shouldn`t be allowed behind the wheel.
Ed...come on that`s easy...work harder next time.
Ed`s new life verse should be...1st Timothy
6:4 -5 He is proud,knowing nothing,but doting about questions and strifes of words,whereof cometh envy,strife,railings,evil surmisings,
Perverse disputing of men of corrupt minds,and
destitute of the truth...
And that goes for the rest of you " Jot and
Tittle removers "...Matthew 5:18
,strife,railings,evil surmisings
Ed...come on that`s easy...work harder next time.
Ed`s new life verse should be...1st Timothy
6:4 -5 He is proud,knowing nothing,but doting about questions and strifes of words,whereof cometh envy,strife,railings,evil surmisings,
Perverse disputing of men of corrupt minds,and
destitute of the truth...
And that goes for the rest of you " Jot and
Tittle removers "...Matthew 5:18
,strife,railings,evil surmisings
Bro. Tim L. Bynum
New Member
Don`t make me get my Pit Bull...Page 7
Pastor KevinR
New Member
Bro Tim, Find a 1611 edition of the KJV, and then the common edition of today, that is KJV1769, and you'll notice the 1,000's and 10,000's of "jots and tittles" removed.
I would be interested to read your view of why they did that. (I know, QS knows, Will K knows, BrianT knows, Orvie knows, and very obviously Ed knows )Tim L. Bynum, I would suggest that you believe with ALL your heart in the Lord Jesus Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]Oooo! Now let's see if they rake you over the coals for questioning his salvation?
Bro. Tim L. Bynum
New Member
1611 only Kevin...oh yra while I`m here...Someone ask TinyTim why he was still posting at 2:12am Sun. Morning...kinda late for a youth pastor...did he go to church ...how `bout you Ed,Mr. Deeper Lifer