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King James Bible

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Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
peperoni123 said:
Could those who say there are errors
in the KJV please point some of those errors out to me?

I have a dozen writings i've developed while on this Forum.
They all pertain NOT to errors in the KJV, but to
errors FROM the KJV - that is PRIVATE miss-INTERPERTATIONS.
See the one I posted before this post.
 

franklinmonroe

Active Member
Mike Berzins said:
So is the practice of personally retranslating the scripture for your audience a biblical one? Did the Lord or any of the prophets or apostles ever say "a better translation would be...?" Please provide an example from the scriptures.

Mike, check the OT citations made in the NT. You will find that many are not word-for-word exactly the same as the OT verse. This is "retranslating" the scripture.

(Note: I am aware that sometimes the difference is caused by the NT author citing the Septuagint, which does not match the Masoretic text (pointed) used by the KJV and most 'modern' English Bibles for the text of the OT. Also, sometimes it is becasue the NT author mixes, or combines, references.)
 

tinytim

<img src =/tim2.jpg>
Ed Edwards said:
Here we go again, folks using their misunderstanding of the KJV
trying to prove KJVO stuff.

Caveat: this writing will be found appearing elsewhere
for I have used it before:

--------------------------------------------------

CORRUPT

2 Corinthians 2:17 (KJV1611 Edition):
For wee are not as many which corrupt the word of God:
but as of sinceritie, but as of God, in the sight of God
speake we in Christ.

Strong's sez:
G2585
καπηλεύω
kapēleuō
kap-ale-yoo'-o
From κάπηλος kapēlos (a huckster); to retail, that is, (by implication) to adulterate (figuratively): - corrupt.

As usual, Strong's lists what the KJVs use last, not what makes the
most sense. But why do the KJVs use 'corrupt'. Here is
a text that preceeds the KJVs (i.e. NOT a MV):

2Co 2:17 (Geneva Bible, 1587):
For wee are not as many, which make marchandise of the woorde of God:
but as of sinceritie, but as of God in ye sight of God
speake we in Christ.

A good example of what this verse deals with is the selling of indulgences (sp) That the RCC was involved in when the Geneva Bible was written..
I wonder if that could be the reason, they chose the English word, "Marchandise" to represent the original Greek word?

Preachers that misrepresent what the Bible says is what Paul is actually dealing with. He is trying to show them that he is not twisting what is written to apply to his belief system. But that he is handleing the scriptures the way they should be.

No one is guilty of that today are they?
 

franklinmonroe

Active Member
Mike Berzins said:
I've never seen anywhere in the bible where anyone ever gave a source for their scripture, other than the chapter or book. Do you doubt my source is scripture?

Mike, on this board (and in any intellectual discourse, including books) where many sources might be compared or cited, it is necessary to specify which version you are quoting from. There are even differences between editions (year; for example 1611) and publishers.
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Mike Berzins: //I've never seen anywhere in the bible where
anyone ever gave a source for their scripture,
other than the chapter or book. Do you doubt my source is scripture?//

Yes. You could be a huckster - selling 'scripture' by hire.

Actually, God called me to this BB (Bapatist Board) and to
this Forum (Version/Translation) and God has called me to
check out every 'verse' that is posted to see if it really is there.
(BTW, this helps especially with Ruckman & Riplinger who
misquote the Bible from time to tome). So if you tell me which Bible
you were using ESPECIALLY WHICH VERSION OF THE
KJV you are using, it saves some of the time that God
owns in me.

However, you are free to put a stepping stone or a
stumbling block in my path. Be aware, however, that other readers will
be judguing your veracity. And you, like the rest of us, will have
to answer to God.

So I humble beseech you in the Name of our
Lord and Savior, Messiah Jesus, to put the Version,
Book, Chapter & verse when you post scripture.
Thank you for your kind consideration. I'll put a good
word in with the Boss for you.
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Mike Berzins: //Well, trying to prove something sounds more
powerful than something else is not an easy task.//

And a fruitless one as well. For the Bible says:

2 Corinthians 12:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
And he said vnto me,
My grace is sufficient for thee:
for my strength is made perfect in weaknes.
Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities,
that the power of Christ may rest vpon me.
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
franklinmonroe said:
Mike, on this board (and in any intellectual discourse, including books) where many sources might be compared or cited, it is necessary to specify which version you are quoting from. There are even differences between editions (year; for example 1611) and publishers.

Amen, Brother Franklin -- Preach it! :thumbs:
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Ed Edwards:
//4 The voice of the LORD is powerful; the voice of the LORD is full of majesty
is exactly the way Psalm 29:4 reads in the ESV.//

Mike Berzins: //I noticed that too. I can find word for word
quotes of the King James Bible in the book of Mormon as well,
what does it prove?//

It proves your point was NOT made.

Your point was: // Go read the same passage in the ESV and you'll see that it sounds a lot less powerful.//

But the bolded portion of your quote is THE SAME in the ESV
even down to punctuation. Sorry, you lost me in your argument
about the power of two books that are the same:
Both the KJV1769 and the ESV are individually and collectively
the Written Word of God.
 
Ed Edwards said:
Strong's sez:
G2585
καπηλεύω
kapēleuō
kap-ale-yoo'-o
From κάπηλος kapēlos (a huckster); to retail, that is, (by implication) to adulterate (figuratively): - corrupt.

As usual, Strong's lists what the KJVs use last, not what makes the
most sense. But why do the KJVs use 'corrupt'. Here is
a text that preceeds the KJVs (i.e. NOT a MV):

2Co 2:17 (Geneva Bible, 1587):
For wee are not as many, which make marchandise of the woorde of God:
but as of sinceritie, but as of God in ye sight of God
speake we in Christ.

Ed:

Funny that anyone would misunderstand as the English word "corrupt" is so often used in that same sense (as here in the KJV). Almost everyone understands that when you say "corrupt politician" you mean the politician is trading votes for cash. You never imagine that it means he is (lit.) rotten!

cor·rupt
1.guilty of dishonest practices, as bribery; lacking integrity; crooked: a corrupt judge. (From WWW.dictionary.com).


A.F.
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Quoted by Mike Berzins:
//Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding:
therefore I hate every false way//

The real KJV says:

Psam 119:104-105 (KJV1611 Edition):
Through thy precepts I get vnderstanding:
therefore I hate euery false way.
105 [NVN.] Thy word is a ||lampe vnto my feete:
and a light vnto my path.

Margin note:
||Or, candle

This Translator's Margin Note means that the
second best reading is:

Psalm 119:105 [NVN.]
Thy word is a candle vnto my feete:
and a light vnto my path.


I personally prefer 'candle'
cause i'm a 'can' kind of person :wavey:

(I also use the Baptist wavey:
only raises one hand to praise the Lord
and keeps both feet planed firmly on
the floor)
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Keith M said:
...
That said, I do agree with your view that the claims of exclusivity are what causes much of the trouble. But there is a difference - we know that Jesus Christ is the exclusive way to avoid an eternal separation from God, but the claims of exclusivity for any one Bible version are unfounded. We know without a doubt that the Bible is the word of God while the Koran and the writings of other false religions are not the word of God.
...

Amen, Brother Keith M -- Preach it! :thumbs:

Eph 4:4-6 (KJV1611 Edition)
There is one body, and one spirit, euen as yee
are called in one hope of your calling.
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one Faith, one Baptisme,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all,
who is aboue all, & through all, & in you all.

No 'one book' :godisgood:
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ed Edwards said:
:wavey:

(I also use the Baptist wavey:
only raises one hand to praise the Lord
and keeps both feet planed firmly on
the floor)

THAT is funny!! :tongue3: Thanks for the laugh!
 
franklinmonroe said:
Mike, check the OT citations made in the NT. You will find that many are not word-for-word exactly the same as the OT verse. This is "retranslating" the scripture.

(Note: I am aware that sometimes the difference is caused by the NT author citing the Septuagint, which does not match the Masoretic text (pointed) used by the KJV and most 'modern' English Bibles for the text of the OT. Also, sometimes it is becasue the NT author mixes, or combines, references.)

Or the differences are caused by cascaded translations: Hebrew to Aramaic (maybe) to Greek to English.

I agree that the NT quotes seem to be mixed from different places. How nice it would have been if they had given chapter and verse (and version as Bro. Ed likes).

A.F.
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Blammo said:
Talk about your misrepresentations.

Keith,

As soon as I got to "perversions" I quit reading. (I know, I know, the post was not addressed to me anyhow) I challenge you to find one post out of my 800+ where I have referred to the MVs as perversions. I don't attack the MVs, I have defended the KJB against attack, but I grew tired of it.

Why is it not blasphemy to attack the KJB, is it not the word of God? You claim you attack the "myth" not the book. That may be true of you (I won't falsely accuse you as you did me) but I have seen others attack the "myth" by attacking the book. That is what I have a problem with.

Usually, these seeming attax upon the KJV come when someone claims it's PERFECT. Its IMperfections have been discussed ad-nauseum here, but I agree the KJV was perfect for its target readership, and adequate for many others. Every valid version is perfect for its intended readership, by the power of GOD.

There's simply NO "one-size-fits-all" version.
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Keith M said:
Justin, the linked document is merely more spin by Dr. Gipp. He is another of those who cannot truthfully support the KJVO myth no matter how hard he tries. Gipp, along with Riplinger and Ruckman, have a credibility of absolute zero. In the article Blammo linked, Gipp spends much time defending the erroneous use of "Easter" in Acts 12:4. I wonder what he has to say about all the other places where the KJV translators correctly translated the original pascha as "Passover?"

I have written an article on that very subject. I have posted it here before, so I won't do that again, but I will gladly email it or PM it to anyone interested, and will discuss it if requested.
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
peperoni123 said:
An Admin (named Bro Randy Ross) on a independent Fundamental Baptist teens board that I visit (They only use the KJV as well) Posted a message about the KJV which best describes what I believe. This is what he posted below and the link to the original message is at the end.



http://www.teens-4-christ.org/board/index.php?showtopic=4419


Please take especial notice that HE WON'T ALLOW IT TO BE DEBATED! Wonder why?
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Rufus_1611:KJVO beliefs center around the Word of God being preserved in the KJV line exclusively. Calling this belief system a myth, over and over and over and over and over again, does not reinforce your argument but rather puts it on par with me calling your modern versions perversions of the true word of God.

This view is a belief about Scripture that's not found in scripture. Therefore, by believing this view, one is placing it ABOVE SCRIPTURE IN AUTHORITY.


Neither of these methods add to the debate. However, yours is a rather mean-spirited tactic that uses hyperbole and a repeat of a lie in the hopes that if you repeat it enough times, people will actually believe you.

The ACTUAL lies are the assertions made by many of those KJVO authors such as Ruckman or Riplinger.

There is no foundation in scripture for the belief that God isn't strong enough to do it right through a single line.

And there's no foundation in Scripture that He actually did it.

The belief in hundreds of versionism implies that God is the author of confusion, which He is not.

First, there are NOT hundreds of English versions. From Wycliffe onward, there are less than 50. And in every valid version, there are four Gospels that differ among themselves, and several historical narratives of the same events in the OT which differ among themselves...but have been accepted as Scripture for several thousand years. So much for the 'differences'.

I don't believe sir, that you are using the word "myth" in a proper context to begin with. I stood against a humanist college teacher for calling the Bible a myth but at least she understood what the word meant. You are using the word in an innacurate context to disparage a group of people who revere a single translation in the English language as being the pure Word of God.

We have agreed, and been thus directed by Roger, to refrain from using the word 'myth' when referring to the KJVO doctrine. However, that doctrine remains just as incorrect as before, regardless of what we call it. it'd be different if its advocates could PROVE it's true. Instead, all they can do is repeatedly SAY it's true, and all we have are their OPINIONS. and many of those opinions were formed by their owners reading the stuff of riplinger, Ruckman, Fuller, Ray, Melton, Gipp, etc. which were all taken at least in part from SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST official Dr. Benjamin Wilkinson's book.

It was not alleged that you believe the KJV is not the preserved word of God however, we do not share the definition of preservation. I believe His Word was preserved in the AV. You believe it was preserved in hundreds of "valid" translations. It is possible to disagree with each other and still respect each others views.

So good of you to respect a brother's wishes.


And that's just what we're gonna do since the KJVOs cannot prove the veracity of their doctrine. therefore, we Freedom Readers will continue to regard it as untrue.
 
robycop3 said:
(the KJV) Its IMperfections have been discussed ad-nauseum here, .......

You hit the nail on the head that time.

Sadly, almost everyone thinks he knows more about translation than the KJV translators did. Having examined a number of the claimed imperfections I was able to determine that some were false. A lot of other claimed errors seem doubtful. Many are just opinion presented as fact.

The long lists of "errors" posted here do make me sick. I quit taking them seriously a good while back.

A.F.
 
franklinmonroe said:
Mike, on this board (and in any intellectual discourse, including books) where many sources might be compared or cited, it is necessary to specify which version you are quoting from. There are even differences between editions (year; for example 1611) and publishers.

Ed Edwards said:
Amen, Brother Franklin -- Preach it! :thumbs:


That is funny fellows. You have well illustrated one of the KJVO arguments. Did you do that on purpose?

A.F.
 
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