"KJV", "KJVO", "1611KJV" on Church documents

[Fraser]

I still beleive in Baptist principles.
But I have learned to think on my own, through Gods Word! I am surprised on some of the comments, that really dont sound Baptist to me.
I attend a Alliance Church,not that I totally agree with everything.But I have met Christians there, and good preaching.

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Fraser:
I have studied hours and hours, and you are telling me,that our Fathers,are wrong, on what they said? Study alittle more friend!

Which Fathers believed in the KJV. Provide quotes, please.

 

[HankD]

You fellas seem to be carrying a boatload of angst against folks who believe the KJV is the Infallible word of God.

And to repeat the "infallible" words of the Apostle Paul we say: "God forbid".

HankD

 

[Fraser]

Hank, I see the same thing you do!
I am tring to figure out where there coming from? Do they beleive that God preserved His Word?I am really wondering if this is a Baptist forum?
I was raised Baptist, and some of this stuff they beleive is certainly differant from Baptists.
I guess I should listen to my other Brother, and not even give time on this site. Satan is deceiving. But just remember, WE are all going to have to give account!Its no wonder Bible beleiving Christians dont stay on this site.
you will not acknowedge the truth.
I will pray for you!
I just hope you have not made other Brothers,Sisters in Christ stumble!
You Will Be Accountable.
Have sweet dreams.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Fraser:
[QB]
I am tring to figure out where there coming from? Do they beleive that God preserved His Word?I am really wondering if this is a Baptist forum?

Yes, this is a Baptist forum, and yes we believe God preserved his words. We believe he preserves them in the same way he preserved them in the 80% of church history that was prior to 1611. Do you?

I was raised Baptist, and some of this stuff they beleive is certainly differant from Baptists.

Obviously then, "Baptist" is far broader of a term than would describe such a small environment as you are used to. Study some Baptist history and geography. Learn what Baptists *really* are. "KJV-only independent fundamental Baptist" is only a fringe on a much larger denomination.

God bless,
Brian

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by BrianT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fraser:
[QB]
I am tring to figure out where there coming from? Do they beleive that God preserved His Word?I am really wondering if this is a Baptist forum?

Yes, this is a Baptist forum, and yes we believe God preserved his words. We believe he preserves them in the same way he preserved them in the 80% of church history that was prior to 1611. Do you?

I was raised Baptist, and some of this stuff they beleive is certainly differant from Baptists.

Obviously then, "Baptist" is far broader of a term than would describe such a small environment as you are used to. Study some Baptist history and geography. Learn what Baptists *really* are. "KJV-only independent fundamental Baptist" is only a fringe on a much larger denomination.

God bless,
Brian </font>[/QUOTE]Brian, "fringe"? are you sure you don't want to use a stronger word than that?

Yeah I know, that would be against the rules.

Fraser, it seems that you need to make up your mind. You said,

"Hello, everyone!
As most of us know today the 1769 K.J.V is
used.( less printing mistakes)
I was raised on the K.J.V. and Saved through this Bible.I have seen God work through this Bible.But one thing people fail to realize.Theres
other bibles which you can still get Saved with.
I am not saying I agree with other bibles totally,but if a unbeleiver choses a bible,and receives Christ through it.As a babe in Christ its a good start bible.
Fraser. "

Then you write:
"Do you even beleive the Bible is Gods Inspired Word, or are you lost? If we all beleive that there is no English inspired Word. Than we are all lost."

So which is it?
Nowhere do I see in my KJV that I must believe that a translation that a bunch of Anglicans put together is the ONLY inspired word.
That my friend is adding to the Gospel. I admonish you to refrain from that line of thought.


You also post:
"But I have learned to think on my own, through Gods Word!"
Then you post:
"I guess I should listen to my other Brother, and not even give time on this site. Satan is deceiving."

So do you think for your self, or are you listening to the KJVO fringe.

BTW if you think Satan is deceiving us you should check out onlinebaptist.com, and see how satan deceives many into believing KJVO lies.

One lie in particular-- "The KJV never was copyrighted." I used to believe this until I found the truth.

watch out for the KJVO IFBs. They are definately a "fringe" denomination.

 

[HankD]

I just hope you have not made other Brothers,Sisters in Christ stumble!
You Will Be Accountable.

Ditto.

HankD

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by Anti-Alexandrian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Sorry,Sir, you need to get your facts straight.

Pot calling the kettle black eh?

Newp, it's someone who has studied Bible history and general history putting forth a reminder to someone who acts as if he hasn't studied it very closely about what the facts really are.

First, the KJV didn't use 5K mss.That would be the newer versions, as most of these mss weren't discovered till the 19th-20th centuries.

Nope,it(theKJB)came from the Graeco/Syrian mss. of the reformation;all Laodecean "bibles" come from inferior mss.(prepared by Gnostics and Philosophers in Alexandria,Egypt) that contains the Apocrypha -in OT&NT- as scripture, that would be the newer "bibles."

First, you tried to dodge from Frasier's original statement that the AV was made from 5K mss by jumping over to your notion of where the KJV's mss came from. You're NOT gonna get away with dodging that issue.Then you show us that you're stuck in another false doctrine-the "Church Age" doctrine-by your "Laodicean" statement. One false doctrine begets another.

Next, the KJV was and is still sold for profit same as any other book.

So what? People gotta eat you know...

Frasier is the gent who brought up the "money" issue. I merely followed through.

Third, please read a few bios of some of the AV translators & their boss, Archbishop Richard bancroft. They weren't exactly friends of the Baptists of their time.

I have. Just like some who need to look into the "bios" of those behind the "bibles" of today,for instance:

Jesuit
Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini,Roman Catholic Archbishop;he is the editor behind the NA/UBS text..

How about what I said? THIS is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I mentioned the corruptness of some of the AV translators while you remind us of who some of the editors of other texts are. Do you agree or disagree that God can use anyone for anything He chooses?

Fourth, please study the man-made origins of the modern KJVO doctrine to see it was started by a cult leader's book & is based upon double standards, guesswork, & outright lies.

Please study the man-made origins of the "bible" of the month club,that has it's foundation in Alexandria,Egypt;based on Philosophy,and Gnosticism and fueled by Genesis 3:1...

You're avoiding again. Please prove what I said about the origin of the modern KJVO myth & we'll go from there. If you cannot prove it wrong, then please admit defeat.

Then, ask yourself: WHERE IS THE AUTHORITY FOR KJVO?

Then afterwards,ponder this:WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY TO PUT ALEXANDRIAN PHILOSOPHERS,GNOSTICS,SCHOLARSHIP,OR MENS OPINIONS OVER WHAT GOD SAYS? </font>[/QUOTE]Please answer my question first. Yours has been answered a number of times by many other people, but if you can truthfully show us where the *AUTHORITY* for KJVO is, I'll answer yours again, even though it will be a tiresome repeat of what many others have already pointed out.

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by Fraser:
Hank, I see the same thing you do!
I am tring to figure out where there coming from? Do they beleive that God preserved His Word?I am really wondering if this is a Baptist forum?
I was raised Baptist, and some of this stuff they beleive is certainly differant from Baptists.
I guess I should listen to my other Brother, and not even give time on this site. Satan is deceiving. But just remember, WE are all going to have to give account!Its no wonder Bible beleiving Christians dont stay on this site.
you will not acknowedge the truth.
I will pray for you!
I just hope you have not made other Brothers,Sisters in Christ stumble!
You Will Be Accountable.
Have sweet dreams.

If you're KJVO, are you ready to answer Jesus if He asks you, "Why did you fight against My word written in other versions besides your favorite?"

YOU might pray that YOU haven't made others stumble by telling someone using another Bible besides the KJV, that "You don't got no Bible there".

What do you mean by "Bible Believing Christians"? I haven't seen hardly anyone here who doesn't believe the Bible or who isn't a Christian. Just because someone rejects the KJVO myth does NOT he/she doesn't believe the Bible.

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

, but if you can truthfully show us where the *AUTHORITY* for KJVO is, I'll answer yours again, even though it will be a tiresome repeat of what many others have already pointed out.

Even though it will be a "tiresome repeat" of what I've posted before,and since Scripture is NEVER enough to satisfy even the most novice "bible" of the month club member,I will give it one more try;again I know that Scripture will never satisfy you.


This "*AUTHORITY*" can be applied to Bibles from the Graeco/Syrian mss. of the Reformation;the KJB being the outstanding representation -or distillation of those texts and Bibles;not to Alexandrian forgeries,as per Church history..


Read: John 16:13,Proverbs 22:17-21,and 1st Corinthians 2:9-13.Also,see Hebrews 5:14,1st Cor 12:10,1st Cor 2:14.

Now,before you come back with your hackneyed "so the KJB isn't your '*AUTHORITY*',I got those passages of Scripture straight from the KJB,which falls under those portions of Scripture.

Now that I gave you your answer from Scripture(KJB),I know that will not be enough to settle this matter;shucks,it never is!


So now,answer my question!! Chapter and Verse please.............

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

Just because someone rejects the KJVO myth does NOT he/she doesn't believe the Bible.

True!! Problem is,they dont know which "bible"(over 200 conflicting authorities) to believe in.(1 Corinthians 14:33)

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Anti-Alexandrian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Just because someone rejects the KJVO myth does NOT he/she doesn't believe the Bible.

True!! Problem is,they dont know which "bible"(over 200 conflicting authorities) to believe in.(1 Corinthians 14:33) </font>[/QUOTE]Doesn't matter, they are all the same
and never conflict with each other, save
in those not attuned to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Pastor KevinR]

Originally posted by Fraser:
I attend a Alliance Church,not that I totally agree with everything.But I have met Christians there, and good preaching.

Most Alliance Churches I'm familair with use the NIV, so I am curious; how do you reconcile attending? Does that particular church use exclusively the KJV?
I'd like to recommend two books; "The Unbound Sciptures" by Rick Norris, and "King James Only?" by R. Joyner. Both books present excellent arguments, and they actually stay away from the Text issue but qoute the AV translators, they show the inconsistencies of many KJVO "scholars", the double standards, etc. Go to the thread under versions and read and post when you are able:"Alleged Double Standard of KJVO's" started by yours truly.

Most responders, esp BrianT, has impeccable logic (because he agrees w/me )

[ January 30, 2004, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Pastor KevinR ]

 

[Pastor KevinR]

Originally posted by Fraser:
Hank, I see the same thing you do!
I am tring to figure out where there coming from? Do they beleive that God preserved His Word?I am really wondering if this is a Baptist forum?
I was raised Baptist, and some of this stuff they beleive is certainly differant from Baptists.
I guess I should listen to my other Brother, and not even give time on this site. Satan is deceiving. But just remember, WE are all going to have to give account!Its no wonder Bible beleiving Christians dont stay on this site.
you will not acknowedge the truth.
I will pray for you!
I just hope you have not made other Brothers,Sisters in Christ stumble!
You Will Be Accountable.
Have sweet dreams.

Bro Fraser, are you aware that by and large the KJVOnly movement is late? it was around "sporatically" (spell?)before then (SkanMatos can clarify), but a Seventh Day Adventist(B.Wilkinson) wrote a book in 1930 and then it "birthed" then..and grew and grew, etc. It can be proven that old line Baptist Preachers used MV's such as ERV,ASV, etc. Such preachers as C.H. Spurgeon,J.Frank Norris, R.A. Torrey, John R. Rice, etc. Would you consider these men as Bible correctors? compromisers? just wondering

 

[Pastor KevinR]

Let me add that I was a student at a staunch KJVO IFB College called Landmark Baptist Coll in Florida. I was there only one year, as that's all I could take and transferred to Tennessee Temple University. While at LBC, the Bible Doctrines book was "Great Doctrines of the Bible" by Evans, and he quoted from the R.V. time and time again! (yes, at that time I thought they were inconsistent, and still do). The Church Pastor, Dr M. Carter taught a class, I think I was one of his first students (1981),called "Inspiration of the Scriptures" i.e. "Inspiration of the AV1611". The very first thing he wrote on the chalkboard was, "Is God Able?" his premise was that those who don't believe as he does, do not believe God is able (am I making sense?) Was God able to stop the attacks on Sept 11th? Yes! Did He? no! I hope you are following my reasoning. Anyhow, I have great respect for QS, Will K, Askjo, Timothy1769, and others who follow only the KJV! however, when anyone exalts the AV Translators to Prophets, instead of interpretors (which many KJVO's do), then the line is crossed to a Man Made Tradition, or as Roby says so eloquently, "Man made myth"

 

[Fraser]

I have been Saved for 21 years. and I love the Lord with all my heart!and Iam sure you do to!
I was raised Baptist. I was taught that the Bible was Gods Inspired Word.Preaching against sin was common.Wittnessing to the lost was important.Christs exsample is important. Now am I missing something here? or am I not understanding your commments? are we still making a stand?
If we dont beleive that the KingJames is inspired.
Then what do we beleive?
I need to show more love to my Brothers, and Sisters, so if I wasnt, I am sorry for that.
I guess I thought" great" other Baptists, I am getting tired of battleing these other churches.
I must say I am dissappointed,I thought we all beleived the same. In Christ, Fraser.

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by Fraser:
I have been Saved for 21 years. and I love the Lord with all my heart!and Iam sure you do to!
I was raised Baptist. I was taught that the Bible was Gods Inspired Word.Preaching against sin was common.Wittnessing to the lost was important.Christs exsample is important. Now am I missing something here? or am I not understanding your commments? are we still making a stand?
If we dont beleive that the KingJames is inspired.
Then what do we beleive?
I need to show more love to my Brothers, and Sisters, so if I wasnt, I am sorry for that.
I guess I thought" great" other Baptists, I am getting tired of battleing these other churches.
I must say I am dissappointed,I thought we all beleived the same. In Christ, Fraser.

Fraser, I too believe the doctrines you stated above, I believe that the Bible is inspired by God. I just don't believe in limiting God to one English translation. I don't think there is one on this board that doesn't believe the KJV is God's word. We all do.
I for one am glad to here you are not a KJVO extremist. I was worried for awhile. I have many friends and loved ones (my wife) that only use the KJV. I have no problem with that. They are used to it, have memorized it, (I have too, It's what I use when I preach), and we know that it is God's word.
I do have a problem with anyone that teaches that it is the ONLY word of God.

Quick story, a friend of mine was in a cafeteria reading the NIV, a KJVO that had never met my friend walks up and tells him that he is going to Hell for not reading God's true word, the KJB.

That is taking it too far, and that is what I'm fighting against. The extremist myths.

 

[Fraser]

Hi again,
John Rice, did write some good material!
As I mentioned before, I have 6 translations of the Bible.In those translations, there is some good material,and you can get Saved through these bibles.But to grow as a Christian I am finding it hard to accept some verses missing.I found alot of material about the N.I.V and the N.K.J and the list goes on. The translaters when they did not beleive a portion of scripture, they either changed it or deleted it.Not on just one site. I have seen it and studied it.This is why I have problems with it. I will still use other versions but with caution.If you feel in your heart your particular version is right for you,then thats your choice. These K.J.Os in the way there going about judging people is wrong!just because your using another bible, doesnt mean your going to hell.Answer: reguarding the Alliance church I now attend.Yes they use the N.L.T, and I prefer K.J.V.
These people are some of the nicest people ever.
They put Christ first,and of course Salvation.They are more godly then the Baptist Church I was raised in.NOT to say you arent godly. But the Baptist church I went to.The Baptist church I went to is no longer around.
because of sin. In Christs service, Fraser.

 

[tinytim]

Fraser, I'm glad to see your not KJVO, IMO your KJVp. I'm curious how alliance churches differ from baptist. You can PM me if you want. I don't want to hi-jack this thread with that question. (especially since i started it

)

The reason I'm asking is I know of a Baptist Church split over KJVOnlism. Half the church is now involved in an alliance church plant. I know some that now involved with the Alliance plant, and they believe all the baptist distinctives. They just don't hold to KJVO.
I'm curious.

 

[LRL71]

I have an 'answer' to Fraser's question regarding why verses seem to be missing from the MV's (NASB, NIV, ESV, and others) based on the modern eclectic Greek texts. I could state the reasons here, but it may be a little lengthy for me to do right now. I would recommend a couple of books on the subject that would be good reading on textual criticism. One would be Kurt/Barbara Aland's book on the Text of the New Testament. Another would be D.A. Carson's book on the KJV Controversy. Both books explain the reasons why modern textual criticism has 'questioned' the readings that can be found in the KJV and its underlying Greek text (the 1598 Scrivener's Greek NT). This helped me get a clear understanding of why there are variances in the text of the Greek manuscripts, which were copied through the 15 centuries prior to the printing press. These books also helped me to understand the fallacies of KJV-onlyism and its inherent ignorance (sorry!) of how the Bible came to us through the ages. Another good book on the subject is James White's book on the KJV Only movement. Check these books out at your local Christian bookstore or with CBD. I am sure that these books will rest your fears regarding 'missing' verses and put away your doubts about the modern versions.