Originally posted by michelle:
But you see, I believe God, not man and man's opinions. I believe God's promises to the faithful and I believe and know that I am one of those faithful believers.
Such confidence is good and I do not doubt your sincerety. I, too, am sure of my election.
I believe that God would not allow errors in the scriptures, and that He cares about His word of truth regardless of what language it is in, whether it be the copies, or a translation of those copies.
You must understand, Michelle, that the Scriptures that we hold in our hands today have been touched by man. Whether that translation is the KJV, ESV, NASB, whatever, it is man's effort to translate the given word of God. That is why it is so important that we research and research again what is being said in the Scriptures. That is what leads to spiritual maturity.
If we believe that God has allowed errors in the scriptures, then how can we be sure even of our own faith?
I think this quote is where the problem really lies. From your posts it appears that you expect a proof for your faith. That is not what faith is.
Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
One is not saved nor sanctified by faith in the Bible. One is saved by faith in Christ! It is the Message that saves, not the vehicle of that Message. Consider Jesus' words to the pious Pharisees:
John 5
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Christ's audience here DID study the Scriptures! They knew them inside out, backwards and forwards, yet they rejected Christ. They had the words, God's perfect and holy words, and they placed their faith in them. It was all for naught. Their faith was misdirected.
When will the doubting end? How can one be kept from deception? Or live in God's perfect will? Or know the perfect revelation of Jesus Christ? Have I become the judge of what is or is not the word of God? No. God not only preserves His word of truth, but provides it and makes it evident.
Yes, God does make His perfect will known but not, in my opinion, in the way in which you think he does. He told us how He would do it in Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Do not seek perfection in a text that sits on your desk. Only God is perfect. His Holy Spirit dwells within you. Look there.
You can go ahead and believe that the only error free scriptures are in the Hebrew and Greek, but I know and believe that I have them also in my own language that I can understand. God doesn't allow altering of his word of truth, as we see evidenced in the mv's of today. These things are contrary to what the believing churches have always had.
Let me try to explain the advantage of the use of original language this way, Michelle.
I am a carpenter and as such it is necessary that I measure material very carefully before I cut it. If I am cutting a piece of plywood into an irregular shape, I always try to start my measuring from a single point, a point of origin that I always hook my tape to. However, every measurement I make has a degree of error to it, no matter how careful I am. Therefore, if I try measuring from a point I used my tape to get to, my errors begin to compound. After two or three attempts, always moving the hook of my tape, what may have begun as an inperceptible error of a tiny fraction of an inch grows into a much larger error that will ruin my material and my project.
So, I always try to stay on that point of origin. I measure and I remeasure because my material and time are valuable and I do not want to make mistakes. Likewise with Scripture, I try to set my measurement as close to the origin as possible. I hope this analogy is clear enough for you to see. You do not have to agree, by any means, but I would like to know that my point is acknowledged.
God is also not the author of confusion, and that is quite evident with the advent of the mv's. The division comes from the errors/alterations that are evidenced in the mv's that are shown, and warned about, and it is from those who deny it, or do not want to see or admit to it, that are responsible for the division regarding this debate.
But men can make any version support their point if they do not rightly discern the intent. David Koresch used the KJV and taught that he was the lamb that would open the seals in Revelation. The avoidance of confusion comes from study, not from a particular version.
Do many honestly believe we enjoy coming here to be attacked and ridiculed and called such horrible and untrue things? How would you feel if we said you were part of a cult or sect? Or that you were a disciple of Metzger, or a Westcott and Hort manite? How would you like to be called a troll, or spewing venom? Or guilty of believing a false doctrine? How may I ask, are these type of accusations, not questioning our salvation and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ? And would you continue to come here if you were us, under these circumstances? All because we believe and share with you all the truth that we have in our own language the inspired words of God without error.
I sincerely hope that you recognize that I have done none of these things. If your faith is at a point with which you are comfortable, then I would not try to disuade you from it. In fact I entered the thread to speak to you in particular in an effort to show you with Scripture where your arguments vary from Scripture but it was my desire to do so in a peaceful and respectful way. I do not doubt your commitment to Christ and I really hope you do not doubt mine as I have the utmost respect for the Bible. I hope that reflects in my posts. However, I worship the One of whom the Scriptures testify, not the Scriptures themselves.
Where is God in all of this you ask? He is in each and every believer. Every imperfect believer. That is the beauty and the nature of Grace.
We all have room to grow, Michelle, we all start our journey to God at different points. Paul does not tell us to "attain" the prize in Philippians 3:14. He tells us to "press towards" it. My prayer is that we may all grow from these exchanges as we study God's Will for our lives revealed to us through the Scriptures. Test everything, hold on to that which is good.
