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KJVO Authority
- Thread starter neal4christ
- Start date
timothy 1769
New Member
nope. not that either
i think the kjv is perfect. i don't really have a strong opinion about anything before, except the originals i guess. it was somehow preserved between those times, i don't know where or how exactly. i don't really care, either.
If the originals aren't perfect, and the KJV is perfect, then the KJV has added to scripture. Since scripture strictly forbids us from adding to it, this line of thinking contradicts the Bible.
If the originals are perfect, and the KJV is perfect, that means that textual perfection is not exclusive to only one body of text. Thus, there is nothing to preclude the KJV from being the only perfect translation. So other translations may also be perfect as well, including other english translations as well as non-english translations. I can find nothing scripturally which is contrary to this line of thinking.
If the originals are not perfect, and the translations that follow them are not perfect, then the most logical conclusion is that the phrase "perfect bible" referrs to the message contained within the text, and not the text itself. I can find nothing scripturally which is contrary to this line of thinking. If one understand's the biblical use of the word "logos" to mean the message and not the text, then this is probably the likeliest scenario.
If the originals are perfect, and the KJV is perfect, that means that textual perfection is not exclusive to only one body of text. Thus, there is nothing to preclude the KJV from being the only perfect translation. So other translations may also be perfect as well, including other english translations as well as non-english translations. I can find nothing scripturally which is contrary to this line of thinking.
If the originals are not perfect, and the translations that follow them are not perfect, then the most logical conclusion is that the phrase "perfect bible" referrs to the message contained within the text, and not the text itself. I can find nothing scripturally which is contrary to this line of thinking. If one understand's the biblical use of the word "logos" to mean the message and not the text, then this is probably the likeliest scenario.
neal4christ
New Member
Isn't there one KJVO who will answer my questions???? Just one? Why do you guys make claims and then never support them? 
Neal
Neal
Anti-Alexandrian
Member
Why don't MV'ers listen when we do?? Afraid of being wrong??
Well, I think that that would sum it up;sure it dont say that the KJB is the word of God, but is says the Spirit WILL bear witness to the truth.Now what are you going to do with that?? discount the Holy Spirit saying He cant do that either??
We do listen and are still waiting. And no we are not afraid of being wrong in the least because we are not.
Well, I think that that would sum it up;sure it dont say that the KJB is the word of God, but is says the Spirit WILL bear witness to the truth.Now what are you going to do with that?? discount the Holy Spirit saying He cant do that either?? </font>[/QUOTE]The Holy Spirit, who cannot lie, has confirmed to the vast majority of evangelical and fundamental Christians that the KJV is not the only word of God and in fact is not the version that most Christians should be using. In fact, he has confirmed it to me on numerous occasions as I read Scripture. Is he wrong?
PS: Rom 8:16 is talking about relationship with God, not about texts and translations.
Anti-Alexandrian
Member
Duh! I know what the verse is about. I'm simply stating that the Holy Spirit will bear witness to TRUTH.Now, Him bearing witness to Alexandrian texts,
is debatable..No it's not. He has does it with the vast majority of orthodox believers. There is really nothing confusing about it.Originally posted by MV-neverist:
Now, Him bearing witness to Alexandrian texts,
The problem is that you claim the Holy Spirit has led you one way; I say he has lead me another. On what basis do you decide how the Holy Spirit is really leading?? (There is a very easy answer; this is not a trick question.)
AV Defender
New Member
Simple,read 1st John 4:1; no trick to that..
JYD,
Why haven't you corrected your mistatements about the NKJV yet? Don't you think that would be appropriate? I do ... I think when someone makes a false statement and slanders the word of God, then are shown to be wrong, that an apology would be appropriate.
</font>[/QUOTE]1 John 4:1 is in my NASB. In fact, I preached through 1 John and emphasized that verse very strongly. The fact of the matter is that I am convinced by the Holy Spirit that the KJV is not the only word of God, that the MVs are faithful translations (just as the KJV is), and that the best choice for modern believers is a modern translation. Yet you appear to say that the Holy Spirit is lying to me. Why?
Why haven't you corrected your mistatements about the NKJV yet? Don't you think that would be appropriate? I do ... I think when someone makes a false statement and slanders the word of God, then are shown to be wrong, that an apology would be appropriate.
Simple,read 1st John 4:1; no trick to that..
Preacher Nathan Knight
New Member
I firmly believe that the KJV is the Word Of God for english speaking people. I endorse no perversions of the Word. I have never understood why people began to stray from the KJV in the first place. It is easy to read (it is on a 5th grade reading level, the NIV is on a 7th)and it has not changed. Why should we change something that has worked wonders down through the ages. The KJV worked for Johnathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, Oliver Green, J. Vernon McGee, R.A. Torrey, Sam Jones, Edgar Thomas, Jack Hyles,J.B. Jordan, C.S. Scofield,George Muller,John Stam, Mike Bagwell, my grandfather, and it works for me. Why change a great thing? I do know why the world has changed it though. Simply because the KJV still paints sin black, Hell hot, and still believes in the Blood. The world cant stand it so they wrote their own bibles. I forget the actual scripture but the Bible says that men will do what is right in their own eyes. That is exactly what these other bibles are. People got tired of feeling guilty so they changed the Word to fit what was write in their own eyes. Also read Revelation 22:18-19.
AV Defender
New Member
Read 1st John 4:1. What you do with it is your problem...
The matter of fact is that the KJV was translated by worldly men. They were, if I am not mistaken, mostly Anglican babybaptizers. Now, that is as worldly as can get. They were also high churchians. That is what an Anglican is. High churchianism is also worldliness. The translators may have been the ablest of scribes of their time, yet they were worldly men. That would explain why they left so many words of the Greek Testament untranslated, mainly I refer to definite articles. All Scripture is God-breathed (given by inspiration of God), if they believed that Scripture then why did they leave so many determiners untranslated? One answer may be that they were worldlings who had no fear of God before their eyes.
Yet in spite of all this it seems to me the Lord God has blessed the AV 1611 to the hearts of some of the sons of men to edification, encouragement, and consolation. I say the KJV can stand up against any of today's Alexandrian MV's, both formal equivalent and especially the wicked dynamic equivalent and paraphrase versions. But I will not be too hasty to say it defeats modern FE versions based on the same texts as itself, like the LITV and MKJV.
Harald
Yet in spite of all this it seems to me the Lord God has blessed the AV 1611 to the hearts of some of the sons of men to edification, encouragement, and consolation. I say the KJV can stand up against any of today's Alexandrian MV's, both formal equivalent and especially the wicked dynamic equivalent and paraphrase versions. But I will not be too hasty to say it defeats modern FE versions based on the same texts as itself, like the LITV and MKJV.
Harald
Did you read my response??? Here you said that the NKJV followed the Alexandrian texts on a number of different occasions rather than following the TR. Here, I showed, passage by passage with undeniable proof, that your statement is plainly wrong. I believe you were sincere in your statement, but as I showed, you were uninformed. The evidence is in the evidence is in the thread. You said something that was not true and I showed it by fact, not by opinion. It is you who are willfully ignoring the facts. I did not do that to embarrass you but to debunk commonly repeated, but rarely checked, asserion that is just simply wrong.Originally posted by JYD:
You have GOT to be kidding!! I have mistated nothing;I stick by my statements.You are willfuly ignoring facts;I also think YOU should apoligize to God for doubting His ability to preserve a perfect,infallible, inerrant Bible, not "reliable"(conflicting) translations.
As for apologizing to God, I have never doubted his ability to preserve his word, even in the manner in which you have argued that he did. God is God; he can do what he wants. The question is not, What can God do? The question is, What did God actually do? I have shown the proof that you have misunderstood what God did.
I did read it and I asked you, when the Holy Spirit tells me you are wrong, why do you call him a liar?
AV Defender
New Member
Oh???
Well, the Holy Spirit tells me,without a shadow of a doubt, that you are flat out wrong and sorely misinformed;what about you calling Him a liar???
[qute]There is no perfect translation. ... Oh???[/quote]Yes, this is true. It has been the orthodox position of the church for centuries. This is not new. It may be a new thought to you but it is what Bible believers have believed all along.
Let me clarify: You may believe that the KJV is the best translation; That is an orthodox position and it is in line with the word. You may not believe that the KJV is the only word of God. That is in direct contradiction to his word.
I am not calling him a liar. I would aruge on the authority of Scripture that you have not heard the Holy Spirit tell you that. The Holy Spirit never leads us contrary to his word. Yet your position is contrary to his word. Therefore, whatever you have followed, it has not been the Holy Spirit on this point. YOu have listened to others rather than studying the word of God on this point. That is unfortunate, especially when people take the time to point out to you the fallacies of your position, as I did in another thread. It is vitally important that you allow your opinions to be shaped by the facts. This should strengthen your faith in God's word, as it has mine.
Let me clarify: You may believe that the KJV is the best translation; That is an orthodox position and it is in line with the word. You may not believe that the KJV is the only word of God. That is in direct contradiction to his word.
AV Defender
New Member
Gee,thanks!! I do and will..
Request denied..
John 21:3(a)
Gee,thanks!!
Request denied.. </font>[/QUOTE]So you are willing to believe something that Scripture doesn't teach? And to tell others they are wrong for believing what Scripture does teach? You will have to help me understand how you are so flippant about doctrine? So far you ahve not shown one biblical support for you belief that the KJV is the only word of God. SO far you have not shown any historical or evidential support that the KJV is the only word of God. You have ignored given support (both biblical and historical) to the contrary. And you have ignored the evident working of God through his word in modern translations.
All kidding and sarcasm aside, how can doctrine and the teaching of Scripture be so easily dispensable to you? Why are you not concerned to align your belief with the teaching of God's Holy Word?
AV Defender
New Member
Good question, scripture does not say word for word not to smoke,but you know (I hope) that it is wrong according to 1st Cor 3:16 to do such things.Now,according to your logic,if it ain't in the Bible it don't count,right???
Good question, scripture does not say word for word not to smoke,but you know (I hope) that it is wrong according to 1st Cor 3:16 to do such things.Now,according to your logic,if it ain't in the Bible it don't count,right??? </font>[/QUOTE]Smoking is wrong because it violates clear biblical principles. KJVOnlyism is likewise wrong because it violates biblical principles and examples as well as known historical facts.