KJVo Refuse to Answer

[Dr. Bob]

Welcome, Larry, to a thread that will not die. Nor give an answer.

We have been holding feet to the fire, but get the strangest answers.

The KJV, completed in 1611, was the perfect Word of God in English for all eternity. That is more perverted doctrine than anything I've seen (short of normal Ruckman).

We all wish proof, but not to this absurdity. Even the Seventh Davy Adventist founders of onlyism didn't go that extreme!

Add to that none of the "onlyist" have yet to say which of the AV1611 or 100+ revisions are the exact perfect word-for-word preserved translation.

We are patiently waiting, observing the "dance and dodge".

 

[Bro Tony]

Tony,
Look a page or two before, reason is given. Don't shut down your brain when someone says something you don't agree with. A ridiculous reply as yours proves you did not think through the entire reply.

It seems we have another, "You would understand, if you understood" KJVOist on the board. It is still incredible.

Bro Tony

 

[AVL1984]

That's a shame, Bro Tony. I can't believe what I've been reading from this guy. No proof, just nonsense and some of the worst logic and most unbiblical positioning I've seen since the other poster was here.

 

[Phillip]

Don, I do have to appologize for complaining that you had not posted. I honestly did not see your answer. For that I am sorry.

As far as your answer goes; you do have an interesting concept that if the King James Version (which-ever version) IS the Word of God, then that Word existed in heaven. Okay, so does that mean that you believe that "on Earth" the King James Bible is the only correct word-for-word, letter-for-letter perfect Bible...and if it is, which one of the many versions of the King James Translation?

Is it your belief that English speaking people "on Earth" did NOT have a word-for-word, letter-for-letter copy of the Word of God UNTIL 1611? I noticed that you said that the Word of God certainly existed before 1611 as part of your argument, but did it exist "on Earth" AND in the English language?

I will not say anything more about your beliefs, until I see your answers and I do realize that we all have work to do and cannot camp out on the BB. I am beginning to see how you are thinking, but, I have a lot of unanswered questions concerning your beliefs. I agree with you to a certain extent that THE Word-of-God IS settled in heaven (of course, that is Biblical). Whether or not it IS the King James version could be open to debate since we are dealing with the Spiritual realm and dimensions that we know nothing about. For all we know, it may be stored in some manner never known to man such as a series of "thoughts" or "ideas". Who knows.

To tie down the KJV to this, I am having trouble seeing it and I need to know more about your beliefs. If you are restricting yourself to a word-for-word perfect version in English, then how and which one should we use. The 1769 Oxford, or the original 1611? There ARE differences. I really just don't understand what you are truly getting at, I don't believe. Maybe I am just not smart enough to understand your logic, but it is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Bro Tony]

What is kind of scary is what would happen if everybody in the church took this same illogical, unbiblical, mystical approach to every area of their Christian life. There would be no standard of truth at all. It would all become a philosophy of it is so because I say it is so, even if I have nothing of authority to base my belief's on. Most KJVOist on here would jump all over this type of mystical revelation of truth in their church, but they don't seem to mind it when it comes to the KJV.

Bro Tony

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:


Add to that none of the "onlyist" have yet to say which of the AV1611 or 100+ revisions are the exact perfect word-for-word preserved translation.

Don't forget, now we haev been promised that there is a letter for letter perfect version.

 

[AVL1984]

I'd like to know what it is so I can go out and buy it!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

We were told 2 days ago that we would have an answer. Maybe it will be a Christmas present.

 

[Phillip]

The bottom line is that Dr. Bob is right. This thread can and will probably continue, but no answers are forthcoming. Bottom line, if the KJVo's answer it "truthfully", they will have a major problem with their own beliefs.

Attempts, that require a ten-page answer, is all that I expect to see coming from the KJVo crowd. Either that. . . or silence.

The questions are simple---the answers should be too. Any KJVo out there who will dare to stick your neck out? (With a LEGITIMATE answer.)

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I'm going to bed, I am so anxious that I want somebody to wake me up if we get an answer .

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Wow guys....just got in from a good hard days honest work and lo and behold,what do I find??? I find that the MV crowd is beginning to answer posts with the same kind of biting sarcasm that even I have seen in some of the good Dr.Ruckmans writings!Oh yeah...and to your credit,minus the "cuss" words.Thank God!
I,however,won't offer any more of my usual reasoning or logic for what I believe at this time since it would be redundant.Like I said before,the Lord Jesus Christ will definitely sort all this out at His Judgement seat....and whoever is wrong will come clean then.In the meantime I think we should move on to something more edifying like Grace or Sanctification or maybe how we as believers can discern whatever spiritual gifts our Lord has bestowed on each of us.I've ALWAYS struggled with how to determine just WHAT those are in my own life.Since WE ALL disagree on the subject of this thread BUT we all profess to be BIBLE BELIEVERS(of some sort or another)why don't we quit all this pointless fussing and move on to better things.JMO.By the way,inspite of all your interesting theories I still plan to stick with my King James since it is the only one I trust...and I don't go looking for errors or mistakes in it.I just don't wish to chance doing anything that might undermine my FAITH and CONFIDENCE in the Word of God.

Peace Ya'll

Greg Sr.

 

[HankD]

Wow guys....just got in from a good hard days honest work and lo and behold, what do I find??? I find that the MV crowd is beginning to answer posts with the same kind of biting sarcasm that even I have seen in some of the good Dr. Ruckmans writings! Oh yeah...and to your credit, minus the "cuss" words. Thank God!

Some have decided to fight fire with fire here at the BB. There was a time when the KJVO did invade the BB with bad language as well (later deleted by the moderators, of course).

In the meantime I think we should move on to something more edifying like Grace or Sanctification

Many here would also like to move on but when folks tell us that the Bible of our choice is a “satanic counterfeit” is it strange that we strongly react?

At very least we would like to know why and see the evidence, which has to date not been forthcoming.

Is it strange that when some folks make statements like “the MV’s are based upon corrupt manuscripts” but can’t name those manuscripts or for that matter the manuscripts that the KJV is based upon, but simply Polly Parrot their teachers (who may not know either) that we doubt their sincerity?

Especially when after we ask them about these matters that then they claim to be just “simple believers”?

or maybe how we as believers can discern whatever spiritual gifts our Lord has bestowed on each of us.

OK, maybe it’s the discerning spirit or the gift of admonishment.

why don't we quit all this pointless fussing and move on to better things.

OK, we are game. However while the attack of the MV’s continues here at the BB by the KJVO, the “fussing” is not going to end. Especially while these folks continue to come here and attack the Bibles out of which many of us have had the Gospel preached to us and were saved, these same bibles which we bring to church and use in worship being called “satanic” and/or “corrupt”.

I still plan to stick with my King James since it is the only one I trust.

Excellent choice.

and I don't go looking for errors or mistakes in it.

Fine, please extend to us the same courtesy.

I just don't wish to chance doing anything that might undermine my FAITH and CONFIDENCE in the Word of God.

Neither to do we but when others come here to do just that concerning our Bibles, they should not think it strange to be treated in like kind.

HankD

 

[Dr. Bob]

People who accept God's Word (Greek/Hebrew) and various English translations are really tired and truly saddened by the "dance-and-dodge" of the only sect.

Now we are called "sarcastic"? AT LEAST WE ARE NOT LIARS.

How 'bout that? No sarcasm. Just fact. 8 pages later and still we wait.

And not worried about waking C4K. They have no answer except lies. They've chosen to believe it - that is their privilege. But then condemn me?

I don't think so.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Dr.Bob...It's a bit strong to be slinging around that word "liar" I think.I won't speak for all that share my view of the KJV but as for myself(before God),I have tried to expound my own position with a measure of grace from a logical and reasonable frame of reference.I know we disagree on this issue and likely always will until we get to heaven.The simple truth is that I have believed the evidence I have seen and heard over the years since I was saved in 1977....and you have believed and accepted that which you have seen and heard.I won't attempt to judge your motives for believing what you do...I don't believe I have that right.All I can do is testify as to the motives which I have tried to embrace as I've sought the truth I was seeking....and that was this.....I have always wanted to know what God wanted me to know and believe for His Glory and His Purpose and I have always asked Him to protect me by His Holy Spirit from being deceived or misled.I have failed the Lord in many ways over the years but I have never tried to knowingly embrace anything that would dishonor Him.And that my dear brother is where I stand on this issue.If by some chance I have somehow managed to swallow a lie then I pray God will reveal it to me so I can seek to be free of it.I know that you and many others will probably believe that I have......but I don't think so.I love the Word of God.It is that plain and that simple for me.The biggest challenge I face from day to day is getting enough of it in me that the Holy Spirit can use it to cleanse me and "grow" me in the "grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus".Would that we'd ALL be more like Him every day!
For Jesus,
Greg Sr.

 

[HankD]

Thank you for that testimony Gregory.

Many perhaps most MV users who post here can say the same.

I hope you can see our point of view concerning this issue.

While MV supporters claim that no human translation can be word-for-word perfect in relaying the Word of God from the original language text, many KJVO supporters come here telling us that the Bible(s) we use are "satanic counterfeits" or "corrupt".

while it may not be the best scriptural response, I hope you can understand the harshness that it evokes from many here at the BB.

Along with that we have had also to endure the innuendo and insult of "I on the other hand read only the pure words of God" SHOUTING and bragging by insinuation that they possess spiritual superiority over us "garbage can" Bible readers and having tantrums when we measure the KJV and its human translators by the very same measure that they use against the MV's.

Why is it a spiritual exercise when folks come here and drag the Modern Versions and their translators through the mud of gossip and calumniation, but then get angry when we point out the very same difficulties with the KJV and it's translators?

I agree that we should move on but not if I have to accept the "satanic counterfeit" mantra of the KJVO leveled against my choice of Bible version.

You do not seem to be of this extreme but time will tell.

HankD

 

[robycop3]

Mr. KJBO:

Of course you have every right to say things with which Bro. Tony myself, or any other member may disagree with, same as YOU have the right to disagree with me, but if I find someone's view to be juat plain OUTLANDISH, I'm gonna say so. And I DO find your view that the KJV existed before it was written to be just THAT. Why? Because whatever version you claim it was written in before the KJV was made is NOT the KJV; it's DIFFERENT from the KJV. I'm not questioning your faith in any way; I've seen some very devout Christians carrying views that are out in the bullpen, to put it mildly. But the absolute TRUTH is that the KJVO myth is wholly made by man, and only recently within the history of the Bible in English...& it has absolutely ZERO Scriptural support!

Mr. Perry:

Please keep in mind that we're NOT trying to destroy the KJV. It's an excellent translation, as is the Geneva before it and the NASV and NKJV after it. What we ARE trying to destroy is the PROVEN FALSE DOCTRINE that the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible translation out there.

If this myth were of GOD, it would be in His word, BUT IT'S NOT, so it's NOT of GOD. Therefore, it's of MAN. But man is only the PENultimate author of that nonsense. That leaves only ONE ULTIMATE source.....

Almost always, the lay person, as well as more than one pastor, has picked up the KJVO myth by reading some book that follows the old KJVO "party line" set forth by Wilkinson, Ray, and Fuller, who set the stage for Ruckman, Riplinger, & the like...and then, these people have the audacity to tell us they acquired the myth "by faith". Do they REALLY expect someone such as I, who knows the KJVO myth by heart, to actually BELIEVE them? Their prob is that they've read that KJVO hogwash so much that the doctrine has hardened into dogma for them, and they'll go to great lengths to attempt to justify it to themselves. They just will NOT believe the FACTS that prove the KJVO myth false.

This very thread is an example of that thinking...Several members have repeatedly asked the KJVOs here to tell all of us WHICH EDITION of the AV/KJV is the PERFECT one, and why. Their answers have been the same as their answers for undeniable PROOF that the KJVO myth is correct...NONE!

There is but ONE legitimate reason to be KJVO...PERSONAL PREFERENCE. No other reason is correct. Unlike the KJVOs, I don't use a double standard, so I'll extend my above statement to cover ALL one-versionists.

Once again, KJVOs...WHICH EDITION OF THE AV/KJV IS THE PERFECT ONE, AND WHY?

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Hank..Thanks for your response....and while I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the subject matter I certainly do see your point about the "trash talk" that goes on and it is understandable that anyone would take offense at having the kind of mud we see slung around being directed at them no matter which side of the issue you fall on.I ahve never endorsed that kind of behavior and I think it demonstrates a lack of grace and absence of the fruit of the Holy Spirit.Very fleshly in my opinion.Either way...regardless of which side of the fence you fall on about this issue,name-calling and rude accusations WILL NEVER convince anyone to change their belief.However...I think we'd all have to admit that even Jesus Himself and Paul did from time to time have some "unflattering" things to say to the religious crowd they addressed in regards to doctrine and heresy.I'm just not sure any of us have that kind of authority or enough grace to pull it off successfully.Either way...ya won't hear any name-calling coming out of me.

Have a Blessed CHRISTmas!

Greg

 

[LarryN]

I'm probably the one that the posts here refering to "sarcasm" are talking about. In hindsight, my post yesterday did have a HIGH degree of sarcasm to it. I apologize to whoever was offended by it.

----------------------------------------------

Greg wrote:

Have a Blessed CHRISTmas!

I like the all-caps part of that quote! With your permission, do you mind if I use that in the future? The liberal's agenda to remove CHRIST from Christmas REALLY makes me want to lose my cool at times!

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Larry...help yourself to the caps brother...I certainly don't "own" rights to them and I like yourself have gotten quite a bit "chapped" about the efforts of the liberals to deny our Lord and remove Him from the public domain.
As for any posted sarcasm...it doesn't offend me per/se....I just find that it usually doesn't accomplish much in the way of rationally relating a particular viewpoint.The truth is though that sometimes it can be somewhat entertaining..lol ...but....entertainment doesn't seem to be the point of most of these particular forums so I question its place here.In this setting it can be construed as offensive.BUT I wasn't.

God Bless You My Brother

Have a Happy CHRISTmas!

Greg Sr.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
People who accept God's Word (Greek/Hebrew) and various English translations are really tired and truly saddened by the "dance-and-dodge" of the only sect.

Now we are called "sarcastic"? AT LEAST WE ARE NOT LIARS.

How 'bout that? No sarcasm. Just fact. 8 pages later and still we wait.

Remember the song from when you were a kid, "Here we go 'round the Mulberry bush, the Mulberry bush . . ."