Korea

[freeatlast]

My friend, you are forgetting China. Do you believe China would sit by and do nothing? We do not live in a world where countries are isolated. N.K. may be isolated from much of the world, but not totally. It would not be over in 15 to 20 minutes.

Also, you are forgetting that launching ICBMs is not a one minute decision. It takes time to set up the final conditions to launch and that activity cannot be done in total secrecy.

I understand you sentiment. But sentiment is not enough and wishful thinking will not work either.

Cheers.

I am not sure where you got your information but it is flawed. The whole process could launch and be over in 30 minutes max if the resourses are applied. Yes there is a prep time and that does not have to be known as you seem to suggest. As for China the reason for the swift and total wiping out of the North is so that China has nothing to defend. None left in the North no one to defend. I would remind you that every coward has an excuse as to why people cannot defend themselves against aggressors. I am not saying you are one of them I am simply making a statement about them.

 

[billwald]

North Korea could eliminate Seol in 15 seconds (without nukes) if they were serious.

 

[Don]

I am not sure where you got your information but it is flawed. The whole process could launch and be over in 30 minutes max if the resourses are applied. Yes there is a prep time and that does not have to be known as you seem to suggest. As for China the reason for the swift and total wiping out of the North is so that China has nothing to defend. None left in the North no one to defend. I would remind you that every coward has an excuse as to why people cannot defend themselves against aggressors. I am not saying you are one of them I am simply making a statement about them.

Your lack of thought about the subject is frightening.

You are correct; we could launch against N.Korea and be done with them in 30 minutes from our land-based launching facilities. Much, much less if we launch from submarine.

And it's that "much, much less" that instigates the world-ending war that you're glossing over because of your over-simplistic viewpoint.

If launched from a sub, literally less than 15 minutes between launch and impact. IN the first 5 minutes, China and Russia will detect a launch; that gives them approximately 3 minutes to report the launch to their superiors; approximately 3 minutes for their governmental authorities to make a decision and send that decision back; and approximately 3 minutes for an armed response, if that's what the leaders decide upon.

You have this inane idea that it'll be so quick, they won't be able to respond; in reality, you practically force them to respond in like manner because you've given them no time to react in any other fashion.

This has been the way of things for the last 60-something years since other countries besides the U.S. obtained atomic weapons. Neither side has used them because of the knowledge that the other side will immediately respond in kind, and the repercussions are too horrific to accept.

Any--any--further holding on to this notion that we can "simply" nuke someone else is insanity and/or stupidity, and unworthy of humoring any further.

-----
Edited to add: We should never take the "quick and easy" approach to something as terrible as war. We must never forget that there is something worse than war; as stated by John Stuart Mill: "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." But we must also never forget the words of Robert E. Lee: "It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it."

 

[Don]

BTW: Happy Thanksgiving to all!

 

[freeatlast]

Your lack of thought about the subject is frightening.

You are correct; we could launch against N.Korea and be done with them in 30 minutes from our land-based launching facilities. Much, much less if we launch from submarine.

And it's that "much, much less" that instigates the world-ending war that you're glossing over because of your over-simplistic viewpoint.

If launched from a sub, literally less than 15 minutes between launch and impact. IN the first 5 minutes, China and Russia will detect a launch; that gives them approximately 3 minutes to report the launch to their superiors; approximately 3 minutes for their governmental authorities to make a decision and send that decision back; and approximately 3 minutes for an armed response, if that's what the leaders decide upon.

You have this inane idea that it'll be so quick, they won't be able to respond; in reality, you practically force them to respond in like manner because you've given them no time to react in any other fashion.

This has been the way of things for the last 60-something years since other countries besides the U.S. obtained atomic weapons. Neither side has used them because of the knowledge that the other side will immediately respond in kind, and the repercussions are too horrific to accept.

Any--any--further holding on to this notion that we can "simply" nuke someone else is insanity and/or stupidity, and unworthy of humoring any further.

-----
Edited to add: We should never take the "quick and easy" approach to something as terrible as war. We must never forget that there is something worse than war; as stated by John Stuart Mill: "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." But we must also never forget the words of Robert E. Lee: "It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it."

Don thank you for the information although it is simply flawed. In any such attack while the enemy is kept in the dark at the moment of the attack the other powers are notified of what is taking place. There would be no counter attack. Crying and complaining yes, but no counter attack. Problem solved. I realize that you continue to seek a method of cowering to these aggressors, not that your a coward, but the fact is that when the time comes those who hold to freedom and security just have to act. The statement to give me liberty or give me death is not for the weak of heart even though the weak of heart do benefit from those who hold to it.
Happy Thanksgiving. The motto for thanksgiving day is eat early and eat often.

 

[HankD]

Don thank you for the information although it is simply flawed. In any such attack while the enemy is kept in the dark at the moment of the attack the other powers are notified of what is taking place. There would be no counter attack. Crying and complaining yes, but no counter attack. Problem solved. I realize that you continue to seek a method of cowering to these aggressors, not that your a coward, but the fact is that when the time comes those who hold to freedom and security just have to act. The statement to give me liberty or give me death is not for the weak of heart even though the weak of heart do benefit from those who hold to it.
Happy Thanksgiving. The motto for thanksgiving day is eat early and eat often.

While I agree that when all else fails we must do what we must do but I disagree that there will be no counter attack.

HankD

 

[Don]

Don thank you for the information although it is simply flawed. In any such attack while the enemy is kept in the dark at the moment of the attack the other powers are notified of what is taking place. There would be no counter attack. Crying and complaining yes, but no counter attack. Problem solved. I realize that you continue to seek a method of cowering to these aggressors, not that your a coward, but the fact is that when the time comes those who hold to freedom and security just have to act. The statement to give me liberty or give me death is not for the weak of heart even though the weak of heart do benefit from those who hold to it.
Happy Thanksgiving. The motto for thanksgiving day is eat early and eat often.

Please educate me (and everyone else) where I'm flawed. Simply saying that the enemy will be kept in the dark doesn't make it so. Please explain how they will have no idea what's going on.

-----
Amended to add: I would like to know your military background and experience, level of expertise, etc. that certifies you as the authoritative source for your statements.

 

[KenH]

There would be no counter attack.

No sane human being would risk the survival of civilization on planet Earth on such a capricious thought.

 

[Rippon]

Bracing for a possible attack on the morrow.

 

[freeatlast]

No sane human being would risk the survival of civilization on planet Earth on such a capricious thought.

So you say. I say no sane person would continue to allow the un-provokes attacks on civilians as has been allowed. In a swift nuclear attack there would not be enough time to respond by the North because of the close proximity to the South. Problem solved. By the way you might want to read the end of the book. There is no risk of human survival on planet earth. :thumbs:

 

[KenH]

By the way, I have read the back of The Book. It gives no excuse for advocating the horrible idea you are advocating.

 

[Don]

So you say. I say no sane person would continue to allow the un-provokes attacks on civilians as has been allowed. In a swift nuclear attack there would not be enough time to respond by the North because of the close proximity to the South. Problem solved. By the way you might want to read the end of the book. There is no risk of human survival on planet earth. :thumbs:

Aha - the idiocy is finally explained.

South Korea doesn't have any nukes of their own. Thus, any nukes fired would be by a partnering country--say, the U.S.--which would immediately bring into play other countries in the world.

Do you now understand why your solution is utterly incomprehensible?

 

[freeatlast]

Aha - the idiocy is finally explained.

South Korea doesn't have any nukes of their own. Thus, any nukes fired would be by a partnering country--say, the U.S.--which would immediately bring into play other countries in the world.

Do you now understand why your solution is utterly incomprehensible?

I see nothing incomprehensible about it. It would solve the problem once and for all. I don't believe it would bring in other countries if there is nothing left of the North. Quick and short and over. However you can be sure any conventual war would bring in China, just like last time and we would lose just like last time.

 

[freeatlast]

By the way, I have read the back of The Book. It gives no excuse for advocating the horrible idea you are advocating.

Then send your children and grandchildren to war and put them on the front line.

 

[Don]

I see nothing incomprehensible about it. It would solve the problem once and for all. I don't believe it would bring in other countries if there is nothing left of the North. Quick and short and over. However you can be sure any conventual war would bring in China, just like last time and we would lose just like last time.

South Korea says, "hey, would you mind nuking North Korea for us?" The U.S. says, "sure, why not, no one else will mind if we do it fast enough."

Even if it could be done "quickly," do you really, seriously believe no one else will retaliate in any way?

Or are you just pulling our collective legs? Because seriously, I can't tell at this point if you're getting one over on us, or if you actually believe what you're writing here.

 

[Don]

Then send your children and grandchildren to war and put them on the front line.

I'm assuming you've already done the same?

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

We do not need Nukes for retalitory attacks.

S. Korea has the ability to take out N. Korea...

If not for the risk if China getting involved.

And, China has already proved that they can get close enough to sink our Aircraft Carrier.

The threats are clear and dire.

Thank you Richard Nixon for giving us to China!

 

[KenH]

Then send your children and grandchildren to war and put them on the front line.

I have a much better idea. Let's bring every American's child and grandchild who is in the military in South Korea back home and let South Korea, with an economy 40 times larger than North Korea's, take care of its own defense.

 

[ashleysdad]

Do you honestly believe that a nuclear strike on N.Korea would not have some form of retaliation by anyone else in the world? Especially China or Russia?

After our bombing of Japan in WWII, the *only* reason Japan's allies didn't respond in like manner was because they didn't have atomic bombs, and couldn't risk finding out whether we had any more to use on them in turn.

If you're going to nuke Korea, are you prepared to launch nukes against China the next--or same--day? With the knowledge that they'll be returning fire in exactly the same way?

Your understanding of warfare, and human nature, is limited.

I just wanted to point out that at the time we dropped the bombs on Japan she had no allies left. Italy and Germany were both already defeated and out of the war. In all reality the firebomb raids by the B-29s were causing more death and destruction than the atomic bombs did. Even after the bombs were dropped the Japanese military was prepared to keep fighting, but the emperor finally grew a back bone and ordered a surrender, but it had more to do with the firebombing than the atomic bombs. I do agree with what you are saying though that we do not need to use nukes in this situation. We have way to many other weapons that would be just as effective in ending this and still spare many thousands of civilian lives.

 

[freeatlast]

I'm assuming you've already done the same?

Nope, I am not suggesting that we cower to these thugs and put our children into harms way, you are. Send your children as human shields and let them be killed.