LA shuts down John MacArthur church indoor services

[church mouse guy]

On Thursday, Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff ruled against Grace Community Church and its pastor, John MacArthur, issuing a preliminary injunction allowing Los Angeles County to ban indoor church services. MacArthur’s lawyers, Trump attorney Jenna Ellis and Thomas More Society lawyer Charles LiMandri, announced their intention to appeal at the earliest opportunity.

'The Very Definition of Tyranny': Court Upholds LA County's Ban on John MacArthur's Church Services

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I honestly don't know what to make of this. I believe churches should, of course, be considered essential if liquor stores, retail outlets, and abortion clinics are. California is on the wrong side of the Constitution to say otherwise.

On the other hand JMac is not social distancing in his church, using masks, or anything of the like. Most churches at least abide by that. I mean my mom caught Coronavirus and thank the LORD she got through. I had to quarantine twice due to suspicion I had it. I understand as does my church that it is a real and deadly virus. We pray for people who have or had had it.

I would support JMac 100% if only he abided by common sense rules to protect the elderly in our churches and abide by Romans 13. That's my opinion for now.

 

[Salty]

First amendment - Govt is to stay out of the business of the church - period

 

[canadyjd]

First amendment - Govt is to stay out of the business of the church - period

Yes. Make no mistake, if this stands it will only be the beginning of government “intervention” to “help protect” members.
Peace to you

 

[Salty]

...government “intervention” to “help protect” members.

AND that is the key phrase.

 

[just-want-peace]

Yep, what happened AFTER the “curve flattened”, but still require mask usage????
IMHO, these are just feelers for more drastic restrictions to come!!!!!
This nation will decide this point in Nov.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

I know of a small independent church pastor who was abusing the non-prophet status of his church. He compromised with the IRS. There are federal laws that apply to churches.

 

[Van]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Now some might believe that since the Law says those acting under the Laws of the USA cannot prohibit the "free" exercise of our religion, or prevent us from "peaceable assembly" that government cannot stop church services. But they would be wrong. The words do not mean anything until the SCOTUS rules on their meaning. Soldiers were drafted in the 1960's, even though the Law says "involuntary servitude" is outlawed.

 

[canadyjd]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Now some might believe that since the Law says those acting under the Laws of the USA cannot prohibit the "free" exercise of our religion, or prevent us from "peaceable assembly" that government cannot stop church services. But they would be wrong. The words do not mean anything until the SCOTUS rules on their meaning. Soldiers were drafted in the 1960's, even though the Law says "involuntary servitude" is outlawed.

SCOTUS does not have the last word. The people have the last word by voting.

peace to you

 

[Van]

SCOTUS does not have the last word. The people have the last word by voting.

peace to you

Plenty of people do not think the Constitution provides the right of mothers to murder their pre-born kids, but that has been the Law for about 50 years. And some Supremes pay lip service to the popular view prior to appointment, then "grow" to be something else, such as Mr. Souter.

 

[Calminian]

There is no reason for a shutdown anymore. It's now 100% political. There's no reason for masks, we don't even have any evidence they work.

Those at-risk are the only ones that need to distance.

Spiritually, there is a pandemic. The gathering together of the Church is the only remedy.

 

[just-want-peace]

There is no reason for a shutdown anymore. It's now 100% political. There's no reason for masks, we don't even have any evidence they work.

Those at-risk are the only ones that need to distance.

Spiritually, there is a pandemic. The gathering together of the Church is the only remedy.

100% in agreement!
I find it interesting that masks used to be needed for those with a lowered immunity system - (keep germs OUT).
Now they are needed to KEEP GERMS IN.
My big question is, "How does each type of germ know whether it is supposed to be trying to get IN or OUT????
A bit ridiculous, I agree, but IMHO, this scenario is in keeping with all the bally-hoo over this virus AND the attendant attempts at CONTROL via masks & business shutdowns!

 

[atpollard]

Almost any mask will absorb the water droplets from an infected person when they cough or sneeze. Almost no mask will filter out virus sized particles from the air.

So the masks, in general, do stop the spread of COVID-19 from infected people and do not protect uninflected people from inhaling airborne spores released by unmasked but infected people.

Thus the statements that “Masks work” and “Masks do not work” both carry some truth.

 

[SGO]

Here is a "legal" argument for closing churches:
Forced Closing of Houses of Worship During the Coronavirus: Both Legal and Right | ACS

 

[church mouse guy]

The lockdown is criminal. The CDC has admitted that only 9 % of the total were people who died of the CCP virus alone. And most of them were living past their life expectancy and into their 80s.

In 2050 the government will still be listing deaths from the Chinese virus of people who had it and recovered this year.

Cloth and paper masks are useless. We still have a shortage of N95 masks. So much for American can-do.

 

[church mouse guy]

Here is a "legal" argument for closing churches:
Forced Closing of Houses of Worship During the Coronavirus: Both Legal and Right | ACS

That was an April statement.

 

[canadyjd]

Plenty of people do not think the Constitution provides the right of mothers to murder their pre-born kids, but that has been the Law for about 50 years. And some Supremes pay lip service to the popular view prior to appointment, then "grow" to be something else, such as Mr. Souter.

If the pro-life position was supported by the majority of Americans, and those same folks demanded it, we would have a constitutional amendment to prohibit it.

The political will of the majority is not yet there for that to be presented and pass in the states. So, the people do have the last word, they just haven’t spoken like we think they should.

Every justice on the court has acknowledged Roe v Wade as the law of the land in their confirmation hearings. Any expectation they would change their position afterward is wishful thinking.

peace to you

 

[Calminian]

...Every justice on the court has acknowledged Roe v Wade as the law of the land in their confirmation hearings. Any expectation they would change their position afterward is wishful thinking.

RvW is the law of the land. Stating the obvious doesn't translate to rulings on the constitutionality of something. It's very likely that four justices, right now, if the case was before them, would rule agains it in some way.

 

[Deacon]

There is a right way to open a church and there is a wrong way.
From the very few pictures I’ve seen of Mac’s congregational meetings, he did things the wrong way.
I saw very few masks, little social distancing; he antagonized the local populace and demonstrated no concern for the surrounding community where his church meets.
Then he forcefully used the American Constitution as a weapon of the church against the local community.
Bravo Mac, so Christlike! [/sarcasm]

And unsurprisingly the local government pushed back...hard.

IMO, it would have been a better witness to work with the local government, work through some issues and allow the power of Christ to overcome obstacles.

Rob

 

[Steven Yeadon]

There is a right way to open a church and there is a wrong way.
From the very few pictures I’ve seen of Mac’s congregational meetings, he did things the wrong way.
I saw very few masks, little social distancing; he antagonized the local populace and demonstrated no concern for the surrounding community where his church meets.
Then he forcefully used the American Constitution as a weapon of the church against the local community.
Bravo Mac, so Christlike! [/sarcasm]

And unsurprisingly the local government pushed back...hard.

IMO, it would have been a better witness to work with the local government, work through some issues and allow the power of Christ to overcome obstacles.

Rob

I have to agree.

I just read the local government is willing to have outdoor services with masks and social distancing.
Judge grants injunction barring John MacArthur, Grace Community Church from meeting indoors

I am actually quite angry at this point. JMac is robbing the spotlight from responsible churches, and is killing the image of the church among unbelievers. Something scripture tells pastors to avoid by being of good reputation to outsiders in 1 Timothy 3:7. JMac, according to scripture, fell for a snare of the devil in this case. His argument the epidemic is a hoax unworthy of a lockdown because the victims are overwhelmingly elderly or people already sick disgusts me. I have preconditions and my mom is elderly and managed to survive COVID despite her age. Apparently our lives aren't worthy.