LA shuts down John MacArthur church indoor services

[Revmitchell]

Jmac is doing the right thing. His church members can make up their own minds. This so called government has deemed it necessary and safe for hoodlums and thugs to loot, riot, and pillage with no recourse for those who own those shops, bussineses, and homes. No recourse for those who lost loved ones.

Prosecutors across the country are arbitrarily dissmising charges against these thugs for political reasons. We have a vice presidential candidate actively raising bail funds for these thugs and telling Democrat operatives that their destruction will not and should not stop now nor after the election.

But somehow they want to go to court and spend all kinds of money and exert all kinds of manpower to stop innocent Christians from worshiping God.

Then we get a bunch of smarty pants no it alls who want to venture onto discussion boards and criticize Christians for following scripture.

This world is turned upside down. Right is wrong and wrong is right. Even on baptist board. May God help us.

 

[Calminian]

....I am actually quite angry at this point. JMac is robbing the spotlight from responsible churches, and is killing the image of the church among unbelievers.....

Not at all. In fact, I'll challenge you with the possibility that it's you guys that are killing this image of the Church with your wispiness. Dennis Prager, and unbelieving conservative Jew, wrote an article on how much the Church and its response is disappointing him. If you're going to worry about unbelievers, listen to all of them.


America's Jews and Christians Are Failing the Test of Their Lives

I also know a lot of unbelievers who are very encouraged by what MacArthur is doing, and very disappointed in the Christians who are caving. Everyone, at this point, knows this is political. We still don't have evidence masks work.

And we are commanded in Scripture to assemble together. Distance prevents this. Going to Church is CA is crazy. 6 feet apart and no talking afterward permitted. It's not an assembly.

So this blade cuts both ways. Be careful how you wield it.

 

[Calminian]

Jmac is doing the right thing. His church members can make up their own minds. This so called government has deemed it necessary and safe for hoodlums and thugs to loot, riot, and pillage with no recourse for those who own those shops, bussineses, and homes. No recourse for those who lost loved ones.

Prosecutors across the country are arbitrarily dissmising charges against these thugs for political reasons. We have a vice presidential candidate actively raising bail funds for these thugs and telling Democrat operatives that their destruction will not and should not stop now nor after the election.

But somehow they want to go to court and spend all kinds of money and exert all kinds of manpower to stop innocent Christians from worshiping God.

Then we get a bunch of smarty pants no it alls who want to venture onto discussion boards and criticize Christians for following scripture.

This world is turned upside down. Right is wrong and wrong is right. Even on baptist board. May God help us.

My sentiments also. I doubt I can prove this, but I bet God will use the strong defiant Churches to win souls, not the wimpy masked up handcuffed ones. Everyone knows this is political. If they really believed MacArthur was endangering lives, they would also believe BLM is endangering lives. They don't.

There will always be a debate about when civil disobedience is warranted. I think a frivolous law against assembly is one of them.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Not at all. In fact, I'll challenge you with the possibility that it's you guys that are killing this image of the Church with your wispiness. Dennis Prager, and unbelieving conservative Jew, wrote an article on how much the Church and its response is disappointing him. If you're going to worry about unbelievers, listen to all of them.


America's Jews and Christians Are Failing the Test of Their Lives

I also know a lot of unbelievers who are very encouraged by what MacArthur is doing, and very disappointed in the Christians who are caving. Everyone, at this point, knows this is political. We still don't have evidence masks work.

And we are commanded in Scripture to assemble together. Distance prevents this. Going to Church is CA is crazy. 6 feet apart and no talking afterward permitted. It's not an assembly.

So this blade cuts both ways. Be careful how you wield it.

The article you linked seems to represent a more conservative unbeliever than the liberal leaning ones I meet in Orlando. I now get the task of being of good reputation is harder than I thought. Thank you.

I guess I see this through my church's lenses. We have in door socially distant services with face masks and even face shields on some. We have small groups that meet still in social distant classrooms. We sing through our masks. Some don't follow the rules that closely, but I yet there are some people like that.

JMac may have done better to thread the needle. Have social distance services and masks used. And claim the truth, the constitution says churches are more essential than liquor stores. We are going to meet but the image of our meeting does matter.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

My sentiments also. I doubt I can prove this, but I bet God will use the strong defiant Churches to win souls, not the wimpy masked up handcuffed ones. Everyone knows this is political. If they really believed MacArthur was endangering lives, they would also believe BLM is endangering lives. They don't.

There will always be a debate about when civil disobedience is warranted. I think a frivolous law against assembly is one of them.

I do think BLM marching is wrong in a pandemic. I always thought their marches and the constant apologies for them ignoring the rules were all wrong. Double standards are double standards.

 

[Calminian]

The article you linked seems to represent a more conservative unbeliever than the liberal leaning ones I meet in Orlando. I now get the task of being of good reputation is harder than I thought. Thank you.

I guess I see this through my church's lenses. We have in door socially distant services with face masks and even face shields on some. We have small groups that meet still in social distant classrooms. We sing through our masks. Some don't follow the rules that closely, but I yet there are some people like that.

In CA, you're not allowed to be inside, so you have to stay outside with masks. In FL I think things are very different. There is definitely less hostility toward the Church from the top down. In CA, it's very clear it's political, and it's doing a lot of harm to the Church.

Also, masks are ver uncomfortable for many. I work at home so don't have to bother with one, but I know many people working all day is masks, and it's hard on them. I wonder also if it's dangerous to restrict air for some people.

JMac may have done better to thread the needle. Have social distance services and masks used. And claim the truth, the constitution says churches are more essential than liquor stores. We are going to meet but the image of our meeting does matter.

I'll be curious how this pans out, and what the end perception is going to be. I'm impressed with MacArthur's message. I believe he's going to end up with the better image among unbelievers. I think they can smell the rat he's challenging.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

In CA, you're not allowed to be inside, so you have to stay outside with masks. In FL I think things are very different. There is definitely less hostility toward the Church from the top down. In CA, it's very clear it's political, and it's doing a lot of harm to the Church.

Also, masks are ver uncomfortable for many. I work at home so don't have to bother with one, but I know many people working all day is masks, and it's hard on them. I wonder also if it's dangerous to restrict air for some people.



I'll be curious how this pans out, and what the end perception is going to be. I'm impressed with MacArthur's message. I believe he's going to end up with the better image among unbelievers. I think they can smell the rat he's challenging.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm misinformed. So, in California you can go inside a liquor store or abortion clinic because they are "essential?" The law is no one but "essential" businesses can be open and churches aren't essential? Wow, that is way more of a lockdown than in Florida. If I have you right?

 

[Deacon]

My sentiments also. I doubt I can prove this, but I bet God will use the strong defiant Churches to win souls, not the wimpy masked up handcuffed ones.

Before opening, our church elders submitted their plan to the local police and the county’s district attorney.
Since then our church has grown significantly, both in their online presence and with attendee’s at the outdoor service. We had a number of baptisms recently.
Our budget is overfunded and we are looking to hire new staff.

With the cooler weather coming we will be moving indoors.
We have modified how we do the Sunday service; two services instead of one, mandatory masks, no children’s classes (they will stay in the service with their parents) etc.

A church’s witness should not be one of defiance but one of love.
If the church demonstrates concern about their community, if they show they care about the weak, the elderly and the frail in their midst, Christ will be glorified.

Rob

 

[Calminian]

....Churches witness should not be one of defiance but one of love....

Oy! These cliches are annoying, and unbelievers see right through them. They don't covey love, but virtue signaling.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

In CA, you're not allowed to be inside, so you have to stay outside with masks. In FL I think things are very different. There is definitely less hostility toward the Church from the top down. In CA, it's very clear it's political, and it's doing a lot of harm to the Church.

Also, masks are ver uncomfortable for many. I work at home so don't have to bother with one, but I know many people working all day is masks, and it's hard on them. I wonder also if it's dangerous to restrict air for some people.



I'll be curious how this pans out, and what the end perception is going to be. I'm impressed with MacArthur's message. I believe he's going to end up with the better image among unbelievers. I think they can smell the rat he's challenging.

I looked it up on this website,
Industry guidance to reduce risk - Coronavirus COVID-19 Response

Blueprint for a Safer Economy - Coronavirus COVID-19 Response

Looking at this, California is killing it's entire consumer sector at the same time they limit church attendance. I would be more worried the economy will implode for decades than having to do outdoor services. This shocks me at how foolish it is economically. I'm in shock, I'll be back.

 

[Deacon]

Oy! These cliches are annoying, and unbelievers see right through them. They don't covey love, but virtue signaling.

They will know you are Christians by your defiance and activism.

Love is so trite.

Rob

 

[church mouse guy]

To clarify, MacArthur did not open his church per se. People just started coming back and soon there were 7,000 a week, more or less normal. He never told his congregation what to do and what not to do. They just made up their own minds.

 

[xlsdraw]

We've trusted in God's Sovereignty and Grace all along and He has sustained us. We never closed our church. According to the scientists and the faithless, we should have been decimated. The scientists and faithless don't know the power of our Lord.

 

[Salty]

We have modified how we do the Sunday service; two services instead of one, mandatory masks, no children’s classes (they will stay in the service with their parents) etc.

No Sunday School - Hmmm - But public schools are open?

 

[Van]

If the pro-life position was supported by the majority of Americans, and those same folks demanded it, we would have a constitutional amendment to prohibit it.

The political will of the majority is not yet there for that to be presented and pass in the states. So, the people do have the last word, they just haven’t spoken like we think they should.

Every justice on the court has acknowledged Roe v Wade as the law of the land in their confirmation hearings. Any expectation they would change their position afterward is wishful thinking.
peace to you

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it takes more than a majority to amend the Constitution.
And I see it is a waste of time to try to make you aware of the reality concerning interpreting the various things found and not found in our Constitution.

Peace and truth be yours

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No Sunday School - Hmmm - But public schools are open?

I’m curious, where do you see SS in scripture?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They will know you are Christians by your defiance and activism.

Love is so trite.

Rob

You commented somewhere that your pastor operates on the concept that if the church suddenly stopped operating and disappeared from site, would it be missed (from the community)? This place appears to be the genuine light on the hill... I congratulate their service to Christ. Well done!

 

[Salty]

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it takes more than a majority to amend the Constitution.
And I see it is a waste of time to try to make you aware of the reality concerning interpreting the various things found and not found in our Constitution.

Okay - very quickly - 2/3 of both Houses (288/435 and 67/100) (No signature of POTUS needed) then ratified by 3/4
of the States/Commonwealths (38/50)
In addition - as of late - they usually put on a 7 year time limit. (27th amendment was proposed September 25, 1789 -
ratification was approved effective May 5, 1992. (so without a time limit......)

for more on the 27th:

 

[Salty]

I’m curious, where do you see SS in scripture?

Same place where Air Conditioning/Heating is allowed.


EWF - I have a question for you - when you had/have children - and they turn 5 years old -
do you send them to Kindergarden or do you just enroll them in a university?

 

[Reynolds]

There is a right way to open a church and there is a wrong way.
From the very few pictures I’ve seen of Mac’s congregational meetings, he did things the wrong way.
I saw very few masks, little social distancing; he antagonized the local populace and demonstrated no concern for the surrounding community where his church meets.
Then he forcefully used the American Constitution as a weapon of the church against the local community.
Bravo Mac, so Christlike! [/sarcasm]

And unsurprisingly the local government pushed back...hard.

IMO, it would have been a better witness to work with the local government, work through some issues and allow the power of Christ to overcome obstacles.

Rob

I usually like your posts, but that one is filled with total misinformation. Mac tried to work with local officials. They would not work with him at all.