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- Thread starter alvin
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That is the only authority to do it under. Paul condemned those who preached a false Gospel of self-salvation.
It is good and right that you will not persecute homosexuals. I would hope that NO Christian would persecute anyone.
However, calling something a sin and calling someone to repentance is not persecution.
Sorry Mexdef, did not see your answer. Thank you for your answer. Most will not answer that question so I appreciate you stepping to the fore.
We do not define ourselves by our sexual desires. Any person that is called by God who turns to Him in repentance and faith can be a Christian.
But you ask about someone who has same gender attraction? Yes, he or she can be a Christian. But he/she will know that he/she cannot act on that attraction and he will seek God's heart and will in this matter. He/she will turn from that attraction and know that it is crucified with Christ as are his/her other sins. It is no different than a man who is attracted to many women, or an adult attracted to a child.
He will go to heaven if he's covered by the blood of the Lamb and hell if he is not.
If a person says "I'm a Christian and God made me gay so I will continue to live in this lifestyle and sleep with the same gender as I am", then I would highly question as to whether they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. It would be no different than if a man says he's a Christian yet continues to steal money from his boss - or if he continues in affairs - or continues to beat his child.
Thank all of you for all of your contributions. I truly value all your opinions and take none lightly and will mull over them in the coming days. I hope there are no hard feeling for in the end we are brothers and sister. I am not a trol, I am a Southern Baptist pastor and have been for over 40 years, and am not gay or an activist of any kind. I am just an old preacher who have seen to much pain and suffering and wish to see no more. Blessing to all.
Bronconagurski
New Member
Will a drunk go to heaven? What about a fornicator? Only God knows the heart. But I know this: A real Christian will be convicted by an action that is clearly a sin, such as homosexualism, or drunkenness, and will not continue in those actions as if there is nothing wrong. I know this, because God convicted me of getting drunk when I got saved and took it away from me by His grace. Don't tell me He won't do the same for the person doing homosexual acts, or those having any sex outside of marriage. But as for who is going to heaven, I am not in the place of God. I believe as long as a person is alive, repentence and forgiveness is possible. If I said I got saved, and lived the rest of my life going out every weekend and getting drunk, and God never bothered me about it, I would hate to be the preacher that preached my funeral. I say the same about the homosexual act.
Bronconagurski
New Member
Yeah? Well I am a brother that saw too much pain and suffering when my brother died an agonizing death because people were afraid to tell him the truth. It works both ways. You have sympathy for the sinner, that's fine, so do I and put my compassion in shoe leather. I have contempt for the preacher that won't stand and call a spade a spade, and let people find out when it is too late.
"Persecute" homosexuals. Interesting.
Do we accept adultery? Do we condone it? Is it okay to preach in our churches that adultery is a sin?
If the answer is no, we don't accept it; no, we don't condone it; and yes, it's okay to preach that it's a sin ... then aren't we classifying, "labeling" if you will, a particular group of sinners? And if we preach to that particular group to repent of their sin, or they'll face the wrath of God, aren't we telling them that they're unworthy? And if we tell our congregations to not have anything to do with unrepentent adulterers, aren't we persecuting those adulterers? Telling them they're doing wrong, that the Bible speaks out against what they're doing, that God hates what they're doing?
Yet, I don't see any adulterers standing up for their lifestyle, or proudly proclaiming that God made them that way, or encouraging others to openly engage in adulterous activities. And that's the difference, isn't it? We still recognize that particular sexual sin as "sin"; but we make allowances and excuses for another sexual sin because "someone is looking for something missing in their lives." Then they defend those sexual sinners, saying that we don't persecute adulterers like we do homosexuals; yet, they themselves aren't championing the "rights" of people to commit adultery. So the inconsistency exists on both sides, doesn't it?
"Persecuting" homosexuals? Nah. Persecuting sinners? Yes; and sometimes, too much so, because we have a tendency to forget to separate the sin and the sinner.
BUT, and especially in this day and time, have the courage to call what they're doing a sin; and have the courage to tell them that because they're sinning, they're sinners--JUST LIKE US--but that there's hope, because of the sacrifice on the cross ... whether they're homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, etc., etc.
Do we accept adultery? Do we condone it? Is it okay to preach in our churches that adultery is a sin?
If the answer is no, we don't accept it; no, we don't condone it; and yes, it's okay to preach that it's a sin ... then aren't we classifying, "labeling" if you will, a particular group of sinners? And if we preach to that particular group to repent of their sin, or they'll face the wrath of God, aren't we telling them that they're unworthy? And if we tell our congregations to not have anything to do with unrepentent adulterers, aren't we persecuting those adulterers? Telling them they're doing wrong, that the Bible speaks out against what they're doing, that God hates what they're doing?
Yet, I don't see any adulterers standing up for their lifestyle, or proudly proclaiming that God made them that way, or encouraging others to openly engage in adulterous activities. And that's the difference, isn't it? We still recognize that particular sexual sin as "sin"; but we make allowances and excuses for another sexual sin because "someone is looking for something missing in their lives." Then they defend those sexual sinners, saying that we don't persecute adulterers like we do homosexuals; yet, they themselves aren't championing the "rights" of people to commit adultery. So the inconsistency exists on both sides, doesn't it?
"Persecuting" homosexuals? Nah. Persecuting sinners? Yes; and sometimes, too much so, because we have a tendency to forget to separate the sin and the sinner.
BUT, and especially in this day and time, have the courage to call what they're doing a sin; and have the courage to tell them that because they're sinning, they're sinners--JUST LIKE US--but that there's hope, because of the sacrifice on the cross ... whether they're homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, etc., etc.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
His posts as well as Zaac's might be well received if the name of his congregation was Metropolitan Baptist.
Amen! I was thinking of that verse as well. It's a complete "before and after" view, huh???
Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
The day of judgment referred to in verse 24 is the Great White Throne Judgment described in Revelation 20:11-15. There is no salvation pictured here. Those in Sodom were destroyed for their "sodomy" or homosexuality. Those whom Jesus is condemning are the people of Capernaum. They heard the words of Jesus, saw his miracles, were present right before the incarnate Son of God. There was no excuse for their unbelief.
Thus Jesus says that if the same miracles that He did in Capernaum were done in the city of Sodom, they would have repented. Therefore it will be more tolerable in that Great Day of Judgment then it will be for the Sodomites, though both will be sentenced to the Lake of Fire.
It shows that in some way there will be degrees of punishment in the Lake of Fire. The Lord still condemns sodomy or gays, but he is condemning unbelief in Him even more.
The fact is that the one who "believes in Christ" will not be gay, will not be an adulterer, a fornicator, will not be a murderer, etc.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Pure silliness. I'm the most conservative person on the board and ya'll can't stand it.:wavey:
Bronconagurski
New Member
Thanks for your response. I had no problem with the questions, as I have dealt with them in my own life. I was merely stumped by your lack of response in the other thread. Dialogue is much better. Likewise, hope you were not offended by my posts.
would you rather have the Church keep on saying that its no big deal, that God accepts fully that lifestyle, as He "made you that way?"
God loves the gay person JUST as much as me, but he demands that both Him and me live our lives per the mandates of the scriptures, not as we feel, nor what culture says is the approved way!
Here is the story of the "church" doing it right with homosexuals:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/january-february/my-train-wreck-conversion.html?paging=off
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/january-february/my-train-wreck-conversion.html?paging=off