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Layman's Confession of Faith

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Dave G

Well-Known Member
It has nothing to do with maturity because you are completely off track. What does the scripture say that Van showed you and then you claim he is wrong. If He is wrong then scripture is wrong. No sir there is no doubt you are denying the truth of scripture.
I tend to read more of what @agedman writes because he is "aged...";)

He does not deny the truth of scripture, MB.
God's sovereginty? where does scripture say God is soveregin.
Daniel 4:35, among many others.
That is a Calvinist idea and then they misinterpret the word.
That is a Biblical "idea", and one with much support.
God is all powerful. Which means He is not limited by the false doctrine of Calvinism.
God is all powerful, which means He is not limited to what men think He should do..."offer" salvation to everyone.
God loves His whole creation and that includes all men
Psalms 5:5, Psalms 11:5.
God is not the ruler of present day earth Satan is though Satan is limited in what he can do.by God.
That makes God the ruler, doesn't it?
God rules, and He only lets Satan go as far as the "leash" lets him go.

For example, Lucifer couldn't even touch Job without permission ( Job 1:6-12, Job 2:1-6 ), and he couldn't sift Peter as wheat, without the Lord allowing him to.
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This thread needs to be put back on track. All the posts by one Calvinist after another deny one scripture after another. Lets return to what scripture actually says:
Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19

Of God's Decree- God before creation chose to bring about creation for the purpose of creating mankind for His glory, Isaiah 43:7

Of Creation –In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1

Of Divine Providence – God made everything and sustains everything and brings about the conditions useful for His purpose of creation, including altering the course of human events by intervention, Colossians 1:17; Deuteronomy 30:19.

Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof – Adam volitionally sinned, knowing God said not to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. This resulted in Adam being separated from God, i.e. kicked out of the garden, and his corruption, i.e. his eyes were opened. Genesis 3:7; 17-24

Of God's Covenant – God’s eternal covenant was to provide eternal life for those of His choosing, based on crediting their faith as righteousness, keeping His covenant of love. James 2:5

Of Christ the Mediator – Jesus is our mediator, our high priest who sacrificed Himself, becoming the propitiation for the whole world, interceding for those given to Him, taking whatever was against us out of the way. Hebrews 9:11-15

Of Free Will – We make plans but God directs our steps, thus God allows us autonomous thoughts and actions, but only so far as He allows. He can and does intervene and restrict our options, such as hardening hearts to cause some to continue to reject Christ for a time. Proverbs 16:9, Romans 11:7

Of Effectual Calling – I deny the doctrine of Irresistible Grace, men of flesh, unless hardened, can hear and understand and respond to the milk of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:3.

Of Justification – refers to being made “right” with God, thus our “sin burden” is removed. This occurs when we are spiritually placed in Christ, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, Romans 5:18, Colossians 2:11.

Of Adoption – Our adoption refers to being made physical children of God when we are bodily resurrected at Christ’s second coming, Romans 8:23.

Of Sanctification – Salvation is presented in scripture as having three phrases, Positional Sanctification referring to when we are set apart in Christ 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Progressive Sanctification, referring to our life after being put in Christ where we strive to become more Christ like, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8, and Ultimate Sanctification, our Adoption at His second coming, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

Of Saving Faith - Faith God credits as righteousness, being from the heart, fully committed and devoted to Christ, having more to do with our love of Christ than believing the right doctrines, Romans 4:4-5; 24.

Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation – God grants repentance via His revelatory grace, i.e. providing us with an understanding of God’s perfection and our sins and their consequences. When we repent we give glory to God. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; Revelation 16:9.

Of Good Works – Before salvation, all our “good works” are as filthy rags to God, but upon being born anew, created for good works, we can earn eternal rewards if we build upon the foundation of Christ according to His will, Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:10.

Of the Perseverance of the Saints – Once born anew, we cannot undo. 1 Peter 1:3-5.

Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation – If we have been born anew, our life changes, and we exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Thus, when we meet for communion, we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and if our heart does not convict us, we are to take the bread and the wine in remembrance of our Savior, 2 Corinthians 13:5-6.

Of the Law of God – Under the Old Covenant, under the Law of Moses, the Law acted as a tutor, leading us to a knowledge of our sins and our need of a Savior, Galatians 3:24. Once born again, under the Law of Christ (also Called the Law of Liberty) we are to strive to follow Christ, and keep His commandments, 1 Corinthians 9:21. Primarily, we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and love our neighbors as ourselves, Matthew 22:36-40.

Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof – The only unpardonable sin is to reject Christ. Other than that, God will forgive your sins and remember them no more forever. Ephesians 1:7

Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience – As ambassadors of Christ we are to be His witness to the world, thus being careful to not be a stumbling block to others. Romans 14:20-23

Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day – The Law of Moses has gone away, and with it the requirement to keep the Sabbath, but we are to set apart a time for worship and reflection, and study and meditation, and Sundays are used by many Christians. 2 Corinthians 3:2-11

Of Lawful Oaths and Vows – We are not to swear by God or anything else. Matthew 5:34

Of the Civil Magistrate – God has established governance, and so we are to submit provided that in doing so would not result in violating a clear command of God. In the military the concept is known as following “lawful” orders. No massacring women and children because the officer said so. Romans 13:1-2

Of Marriage - Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, both committed to Christ.

Of the Church – Church refers to either the local temporal assembly of professing believers, made up of both wheat and tares, or to the general assembly, the bride and body of Christ, made up of all who have been made perfect by being born anew.

Of the Communion of Saints – When we, believers, gather together we are to remember our indebtedness to Christ who gave his body, broken for us, and his blood, shed for us, and to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith.

Of Baptism – Christ using the agency of the Holy Spirit, baptizes us to the body of Christ spiritually, and then seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit. Christ commanded we illustrate this spiritual baptism, and make a public declaration of our faith in Christ, thus we are to be water baptized and water baptize all who profess faith in Christ .

Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead – When we physically die, our spirit/soul departs and goes either to heaven to be present with the Lord, or to Hades to suffer torment and await the resurrection of the dead. At the great white throne judgment, all the spirits in Hades will be reunited with physical bodies and be gathered for judgment. Their names, not being found in the Lamb’s book of life, they are put into the Lake of Fire where they suffer and die the second death.

Of the Last Judgment – Those of us whose spirits go to be with the Lord, are also united with our glorified physical bodies at Christ’s second coming, and we are judged, with Christ awarding rewards for faithful service if we have built upon the foundation of Christ with material of eternal value, i.e. helped save lives.[/QUOTE]
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
This thread needs to be put back on track. All the posts by one Calvinist after another deny one scripture after another. Lets return to what scripture actually says:
Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19

Of God's Decree- God before creation chose to bring about creation for the purpose of creating mankind for His glory, Isaiah 43:7

Of Creation –In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1

Of Divine Providence – God made everything and sustains everything and brings about the conditions useful for His purpose of creation, including altering the course of human events by intervention, Colossians 1:17; Deuteronomy 30:19.

Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof – Adam volitionally sinned, knowing God said not to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. This resulted in Adam being separated from God, i.e. kicked out of the garden, and his corruption, i.e. his eyes were opened. Genesis 3:7; 17-24

Of God's Covenant – God’s eternal covenant was to provide eternal life for those of His choosing, based on crediting their faith as righteousness, keeping His covenant of love. James 2:5

Of Christ the Mediator – Jesus is our mediator, our high priest who sacrificed Himself, becoming the propitiation for the whole world, interceding for those given to Him, taking whatever was against us out of the way. Hebrews 9:11-15

Of Free Will – We make plans but God directs our steps, thus God allows us autonomous thoughts and actions, but only so far as He allows. He can and does intervene and restrict our options, such as hardening hearts to cause some to continue to reject Christ for a time. Proverbs 16:9, Romans 11:7

Of Effectual Calling – I deny the doctrine of Irresistible Grace, men of flesh, unless hardened, can hear and understand and respond to the milk of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:3.

Of Justification – refers to being made “right” with God, thus our “sin burden” is removed. This occurs when we are spiritually placed in Christ, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, Romans 5:18, Colossians 2:11.

Of Adoption – Our adoption refers to being made physical children of God when we are bodily resurrected at Christ’s second coming, Romans 8:23.

Of Sanctification – Salvation is presented in scripture as having three phrases, Positional Sanctification referring to when we are set apart in Christ 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Progressive Sanctification, referring to our life after being put in Christ where we strive to become more Christ like, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8, and Ultimate Sanctification, our Adoption at His second coming, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

Of Saving Faith - Faith God credits as righteousness, being from the heart, fully committed and devoted to Christ, having more to do with our love of Christ than believing the right doctrines, Romans 4:4-5; 24.

Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation – God grants repentance via His revelatory grace, i.e. providing us with an understanding of God’s perfection and our sins and their consequences. When we repent we give glory to God. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; Revelation 16:9.

Of Good Works – Before salvation, all our “good works” are as filthy rags to God, but upon being born anew, created for good works, we can earn eternal rewards if we build upon the foundation of Christ according to His will, Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:10.

Of the Perseverance of the Saints – Once born anew, we cannot undo. 1 Peter 1:3-5.

Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation – If we have been born anew, our life changes, and we exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Thus, when we meet for communion, we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and if our heart does not convict us, we are to take the bread and the wine in remembrance of our Savior, 2 Corinthians 13:5-6.

Of the Law of God – Under the Old Covenant, under the Law of Moses, the Law acted as a tutor, leading us to a knowledge of our sins and our need of a Savior, Galatians 3:24. Once born again, under the Law of Christ (also Called the Law of Liberty) we are to strive to follow Christ, and keep His commandments, 1 Corinthians 9:21. Primarily, we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and love our neighbors as ourselves, Matthew 22:36-40.

Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof – The only unpardonable sin is to reject Christ. Other than that, God will forgive your sins and remember them no more forever. Ephesians 1:7

Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience – As ambassadors of Christ we are to be His witness to the world, thus being careful to not be a stumbling block to others. Romans 14:20-23

Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day – The Law of Moses has gone away, and with it the requirement to keep the Sabbath, but we are to set apart a time for worship and reflection, and study and meditation, and Sundays are used by many Christians. 2 Corinthians 3:2-11

Of Lawful Oaths and Vows – We are not to swear by God or anything else. Matthew 5:34

Of the Civil Magistrate – God has established governance, and so we are to submit provided that in doing so would not result in violating a clear command of God. In the military the concept is known as following “lawful” orders. No massacring women and children because the officer said so. Romans 13:1-2

Of Marriage - Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, both committed to Christ.

Of the Church – Church refers to either the local temporal assembly of professing believers, made up of both wheat and tares, or to the general assembly, the bride and body of Christ, made up of all who have been made perfect by being born anew.

Of the Communion of Saints – When we, believers, gather together we are to remember our indebtedness to Christ who gave his body, broken for us, and his blood, shed for us, and to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith.

Of Baptism – Christ using the agency of the Holy Spirit, baptizes us to the body of Christ spiritually, and then seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit. Christ commanded we illustrate this spiritual baptism, and make a public declaration of our faith in Christ, thus we are to be water baptized and water baptize all who profess faith in Christ .

Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead – When we physically die, our spirit/soul departs and goes either to heaven to be present with the Lord, or to Hades to suffer torment and await the resurrection of the dead. At the great white throne judgment, all the spirits in Hades will be reunited with physical bodies and be gathered for judgment. Their names, not being found in the Lamb’s book of life, they are put into the Lake of Fire where they suffer and die the second death.

Of the Last Judgment – Those of us whose spirits go to be with the Lord, are also united with our glorified physical bodies at Christ’s second coming, and we are judged, with Christ awarding rewards for faithful service if we have built upon the foundation of Christ with material of eternal value, i.e. helped save lives.
[/QUOTE]


Your herecies already have been being put back on track, by Bible Believers.

The last post was, God-Given "Faith in God's Ability".

Your 'faith' is your 'faith' in your 'ability' that your 'faith' has to have 'faith' and God excluded and eliminated that 'faith' as 'boasting'.

There is an Infinite difference.

The difference is between 3 dollar bill man-made twaddelism and The Eternal Revelation of God to Mankind in His Words.

I am a I Corinthians 2:14 Bible Believer.

The natural man looks at the first 10 words of I Corinthians 2:14 and sees the word, "Calvinist".

Do you see the word, "Calvanist", in; "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God..."?
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
You have the cart before the horse.

What man does in no way influences God to bestow His favor on anyone.
If that were true, then man's efforts would result in gaining God's favor, making God reliant upon the man's actions in order to save him or her.

That is not grace, that is works ( Romans 11:5-6 ).
I'm not sure who taught you this, but it's not in the Bible.

As am I.
Christ is the door of the sheep ( John 10:1-5, John 10:7-9 ), and He also holds the keys to death and of Hell.

Christ Himself said,
" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( John 14:6 )

Christ Himself is the way...the Gospel itself is not the way.
It is the message of a person's salvation ( Ephesians 1:13 )

Many stumble at it because they think it is foolishness ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ), they are "natural men" who cannot discern what only the spiritual can discern ( 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 ) and they are blind to it ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).


I would advise you to do the same.
Many think they are on the road to Heaven because of something they did...instead of something God did.

Matthew 7:21-23.
If anyone is saved, it is because God had mercy and compassion on them ( Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:14-18 ), and created them for Himself ( Isaiah 43:7, Isaiah 43:21, Romans 9:22-24 ).
Your entire view is so distorted and not true.
MB
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Once again a straight up falsehood. When God chooses to put a person in the kingdom, no one and no power can prevent it.

And note the you, you, you post changing the subject away from scriptural understanding.

Matthew 23:13 says people prevented the lost from entering the kingdom, which is to say prevent them from putting their faith fully in Christ. What must we do to be saved? Put our faith in Christ Jesus! Does putting our faith in Christ Jesus save us? Nope, God does that if He credits our faith, as worthless as it may be, as righteousness. Romans 4:4-5; 24 We are saved by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8 Our credited faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. Romans 5:1-2
God chooses from Eternity past to elect one unto eternal life in Jesus, so can that person refuse the gift of God? Could Paul have told Jesus, "Thanks, but no thsn
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yet another absurd post, a deflection, addressing me rather than the topic.
Agedman view is false, as bogus as a three dollar bill.
Here he denies Matthew 23:13. Nuff said
God does as He pleases is biblical, whereas Calvinistic thinking denies Matthew 23:13. As MB noted the Calvinistic view of what God pleases is off the rails.
Who as the final say in this issue, God or man? If God decided to have us receive Jesus as Lord, can we say to Him "thanks but no thanks?"
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
God chooses from Eternity past to elect one unto eternal life in Jesus, so can that person refuse the gift of God? Could Paul have told Jesus, "Thanks, but no thsn
Are you agreeing with the OP? If not reference the doctrine you find objectionable, and then restate it according to referenced scripture.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Who as the final say in this issue, God or man? If God decided to have us receive Jesus as Lord, can we say to Him "thanks but no thanks?"
Why ask the question. God sets before us the choice of life or death and encourages us to choose life. That is our ministry as ambassadors of Christ.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why ask the question. God sets before us the choice of life or death and encourages us to choose life. That is our ministry as ambassadors of Christ.
Can the lost undo the eternal election of God then?
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Are you agreeing with the OP? If not reference the doctrine you find objectionable, and then restate it according to referenced scripture.
What is the ultimate basis for salvation, the Will of God or our human one?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What is the ultimate basis for salvation, the Will of God or our human one?
Yet another post demonstrating a lack of understanding of the view he is opposing. What a waste.

Who decides to put an individual into Christ. The individual or God?
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Not my concern.
Well you certainly do not speak as if it's not your concern. You always bring it up. Which implies you know. Why bring it up if you don't know or care. You see I care about what God wants from me

So you would believe less than an omnipotent, omnipresent God who is the creator and sustainer of all that is created?
This is not true and you know it. God is not Sovereign He is All mighty,omnipotent, omnipresent No where in scripture is He ever described as Sovereign. Though all you Calvinist use this term as if it's in scripture and it isn't This is what Calvinist do they try to insert there own beliefs in to the Bible in an attempt to make us seem as if we do not believe because we do not believe as they do. This is as false as your doctrine is.
Your words against a view, does not present anything more than your opinion. I would rather consider my Father is the Sovereign who is in total control of all matters at all times to His glory.
Of course this includes all the sin in the world. If God is in complete control tell me why there is so much hatred in the world. Oh I forgot it's all God's fault because He designed it that way. This would make God completely corrupt. Tha'ts your sick view. You have to be able to blame God, It's all His fault according to you. Shame on you agedman.
Such is not a particularly Calvinist view, nor is Sovereign a particularly Calvinist word. It is a word indicating how one's view toward the Father is in complete submission.

Ps. 103:19 - "the Lord has established His throne in the heavens; and His sovereignty rules
over all."
Dan. 7:27 - "the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the
whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom
will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him."
I Tim. 6:15 - "He is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords."
You attempt at rebuke is a silly attempt with no support.
My support is that what you claim here is as false as it gets.It's your adding to scripture to support a view that isn't in scripture.
.
I did but you didn't accept the teaching, and your attempt to discredit the teaching brings no weight.
Not true it never had any weight it a doctrine for the foolish notion that makes you think you are so special
You are merely stating your opinion.
I don't have to tell you about your hypocrisy because it shows through.
It is obvious that you disagree about gate keeper and door. If you are desiring learning, you can start another thread in which you explain who is the gatekeeper that opens the gate at the command of Christ.
Show me scripture that clearly shows Christ as the Gate keeper to Salvation. If you can't then it does not exist.
Perhaps you can convince others that the gate is "wide open" and in some manner is closed when Christ approaches and must demand that it be opened.
Pure Catholicism a false doctrine
I doubt that you have such courage or even interest in really discerning the Scriptures. Certainly your response to my post shows very little real desire to learn, much less to actually perceive the teaching of the Lord.
More insults and ridicule. Keep it up your sounding more and more like the Pharisee you are trying to be
This entire post is just plain disgusting. I'll pray for you you really need it. I will not answer anymore of your deceptions
MB[/QUOTE]
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yet another post demonstrating a lack of understanding of the view he is opposing. What a waste.

Who decides to put an individual into Christ. The individual or God?
God elects us into Christ, we do not elect ourselves!
 

MB

Well-Known Member
So your understanding of God is that He can frustrated by human will power ?
Why do you assume God's will is frustrated when free will is God's will. He invites us to come to Him He does not ever force men to do accept Him which is the false opinion of you and Calvinism. You are deceived
MB
 
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