Originally posted by johnp.:
Ben.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />It does not say they had "THE gospel" preached to them. It says that they had good news announced to them just as we have to us.
Heb 4:2-3 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did...
There is only One good news that I know of, Jesus Christ paid the penalty for my sin.
</font>[/QUOTE]No johnp. The Greek does NOT say "THE good news." It just says they had good news preached to them just as we have good news preached to us. Go back to chapter 3 and see the context and discover this good news was not the Gospel of the Kingdom.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Perhaps you can go back to the OT and find out just what that good news really was my friend.
Why don't you do it for me as you know where you are going with this.</font>[/QUOTE]Meanwhile you can just avoiding looking for that which you don't want to find right?
The people the writer is talking about are their forefathers who had hardened their hearts in the rebellion. What rebellion was that johnp? And what good news did they have preached to them?
My question: How was it that John was already saved in the womb?
Your answer: He wasn't. He was saved when Jesus died on the cross. Matt 1:23.
The bible says: Luke 1:44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
And we are to join with you in your eisegetcial imaginations that this means John was saved even though it does not say John was saved, right?
Why did the baby jump johnp?
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple
A man filled with the Spirit is what you deny is it not?</font>[/QUOTE]No, I deny your claim as to what it means. You seem to claim that Elizabeth's filling means Elizabeth had to have had an Ephesians 2:8 type salvation event. Eisegesis on your part again johnp. You continually read things into the text which are not there.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />No I am reading my Bible here where is says that Jesus received the Spirit when he was baptized by John at the Jordan. Does the bible conflict with your theology there?
Where's the scripture reference for this? Why do you not put it down so I know what verses you are talking about?</font>[/QUOTE]Do you deny that Jesus received the Spirit at the Jordan? Let's get that straight first and then you will have your verse. I suspect that you also expect everyone to imagine Jesus had the Spirit all along because you like that idea better even though you have no Biblical support for it. Right?
To my knowledge the Spirit decended on Jesus it does not say He received the Spirit. How can God be divided remains. Was the Trinity ever less than the Trinity? Or are you claiming there are four in the Trinity?
Looks like I guessed right. You want to have your own ideas to suit your theology.
Jesus was the Word of God that became the flesh. God was there quite apart from the Spirit. Your words only betray what you really believe about the Trinity but would not dare to say.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, `Look, here it is!' or, `There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."
He is talking about Himself.</font>[/QUOTE]Yes, he is and here is where you painted yourself in a corner again with the little "see the Kingdom" game of yours. Judas saw Jesus. Perhaps you might want to modify your interpretation of John 3:3,5 now.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />So you agree that being born again into the Kingdom is the reason the least is greater than John then right?
I have stated why he was. How can John proclaim the Kingdom if he cannot see it? Unless you are born again you cannot see it. How could he announce something he could not see?
</font>[/QUOTE]Maybe if you read your Bible instead of relying on your own imaginations all the time you might find out johnp. God sent John to preach a message of the coming Kingdom. He obeyed God. John was an OT prophet and the greatest of them all and just like OT prophets he spoke his message by the Spirit. And like the OT prophets who were not born again, John was not born again either. Having the Spirit come down upon you is not salvation. It is God's Spirit coming down upon you. You confuse cause and effect. And here is what John the Baptist later did and said johnp:
And John, calling to him two of his disciples, sent them to the Lord, saying, "Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?" And when the men had come to him, they said, "
John the Baptist has sent us to you, saying, "
Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?'
He didn't know and he didn't see it johnp and that is why he is asking the question. All John knew was that God had told him to announce the Kingdom for the coming King. And Jesus told John's disciples the same thing he told everyone else. You can't see the Kingdom with your eyes as if it is over here or over there. It is the reign of God evidence by the works of Jesus in healing and raising the dead and casting out demons. The Kingdom is the power and authority of God manifested in this world. See Matthew 12:28.
And he answered them, "Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is he who takes no offense at me."
You have a serious problem with concluding something can't be true unless you yourself see it for yourself. You confuse your own reality with truth. Reality is not truth. Lies are reality too johnp. What do blind men do johnp? Deny the world exists because they can't see it? Or do they inquire about the truth of it and try to see? But you seem to have the idea that if you are blind to something then that something cannot exist. I would think about that if I were you.
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />What is your reason the least is greater again?
I told you.
johnp. [/qb]</font>[/QUOTE]I don't see it johnp. All I see are vague evasions.
JOHN the BAPTIST:
The greatest born of a woman is a direct reference to the greatest born of/in the flesh.
BORN AGAIN SOUL: The least in the Kingdom is a direct reference to being born again in the Spirit.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, `You must be born again.'
John was not born again and that is why even though he was the greatest born of a woman, the least in the Kingdom is greater than he.
If John had lived through Jesus' death and his resurrection, he Jesus being the firstborn out of the dead, then I think we can say it is likely that John would have believed and been born again into the resurrection life of Jesus. As it is, he was not born again and was beheaded before the cross.
But not to worry. He will definitely be in the Kingdom on that Great Day when he, John, is born again. Do you know how?
