Leaving the Baptist Church

[saved by grace]

Your posts belie the idea that you are struggling. Your first post seemed to be the post of someone who was seriously asking questions. Your current posts continue to tell us that you have changed your beliefs and are seeking to argue.

So, to quote a famous poster: :thumbs:

I have been struggling but I am finding that the replies I am getting are making me more sure that I am on the right path. No one has given me any passage that says we are saved by faith alone or we have absolute assurance.

I think I can say with assurance that I am no longer a Baptist.

 

[Benjamin]

Unbelivable....I am struggling with what I have always believed...

I see that you are struggling with this issue and it is not uncommon for one growing and chewing the big bites of meat to to be looking at these issues. I'm sorry that people here are not more attentive to your needs for understanding rather than wanting to give you the quick boot while disregarding "soul liberty" and all instead of leading right down the path to brand you a heretic for looking at OSAS type issues as something they consider might not be Baptist. To me the leading reason for being a Baptist is that first and foremost the Bible is the final authority, not that, "you need to see and understand things just like me, right now, or you're right you're not a Baptist, don't let the door hit you on the way out."


I really wish I had more time to discuss some of these things with you about faith, works, and grace. (Things are so crazy busy for me now and this board can such a rough place to get a point across.) But quickly say in a nut shell that I believe that growing in faith is your security, as God's elect, those that truly believe WILL NOT fall away from faith; God tells the elect things about falling away not because they can not be true, but to keep us (those of faith) from doing so. All this is by His grace, because we don't ever deserve to be forgiven for our sins and can't be by our works.

 

[donnA]

Forget the discussion, protect the forum, by all means keep it pure!?! Please

Rules exist for a purpose, these are the rules of this forum, is it ok to flaunt rules as if they do not apply to you, which rules, whose rules is it ok to flaunt? Especially when you've already agreed to them by joining here. Thsi man is not struggling, he knows what he beleives, and it isn't baptist, he admits thats.

I think I can say with assurance that I am no longer a Baptist.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I have been struggling but I am finding that the replies I am getting are making me more sure that I am on the right path. No one has given me any passage that says we are saved by faith alone or we have absolute assurance.

I think I can say with assurance that I am no longer a Baptist.

That's fine. You can be anything you want to be. Change your name and info and post your threads in the other areas.

If you think this is the direction God would have you go, you need to be faithful to what you believe.

I think you're very wrong. I think you're headed in the wrong direction. I thnk you have some very faulty interpretations. But you are entitled to your beliefs, but you're not entitled to continue posting in a section you agreed when you signed on here would be for baptists only.

 

[Revmitchell]

I have been struggling but I am finding that the replies I am getting are making me more sure that I am on the right path. No one has given me any passage that says we are saved by faith alone or we have absolute assurance.

I think I can say with assurance that I am no longer a Baptist.

I don't buy it.

 

[Amy.G]

I think I can say with assurance that I am no longer a Baptist.

Well, at least you're assured of something I guess.


I get so tired of people coming on here and being dishonest. This is what hurts the cause of Christ. No wonder the world has such a low opinion of Christians.

 

[donnA]

It's dishonest for him to continue posting in a baptist only forum.

 

[Amy.G]

I don't buy it.

Me either.

 

[Benjamin]

The man is simply questioning whether he is a Baptist and expressing his confussion, you all that are jumping at the opportunity to tell him to watch out for the door hitting him in the @&$ should be ashamed!

 

[Amy.G]

The man is simply questioning whether he is a Baptist and expressing his confussion, you all that are jumping at the opportunity to tell him to watch out for the door hitting him in the @&$ should be ashamed!

Unfair. He is free to post in the non-baptist sections. Saying he's not a Baptist and posting in Baptist only sections is dishonest. He agreed to the same rules that I did.

And it is unchristian to be dishonest. That is what bother's me most. That and the fact the he obviously has an agenda to convince the rest of us "Baptists" the we can lose our salvation.

 

[Revmitchell]

he obviously has an agenda to convince the rest of us "Baptists" the we can lose our salvation.

Bingo!:thumbs:

 

[Revmitchell]

Of course there is already currently a thread on this subject in the other denoms section.

 

[Marcia]

.
WHen did I say we can be saved by works?? What I am seeing is that faith and works go together. They cannot be separated. Not faith alone, not works alone but faith and works together

You're wrong, that is not what it is saying in James. Have you read the whole book? Why are you ignoring that when Abraham believed, it was credited to him as righteousness, quoted by James twice.

Romans 11:22

This is not about losing salvation but about Israel and the Gentiles. Look at verse 5, in the same chapter: "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." Scripture does not contradict itself so we know that verse 22 is not about losing salvation.

That 's not what it says. " it is the doers of the law that will be justified".He is talking about the moral law. Verse 2:21 " while you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery?" Clearly Paul wants them to be doers of the moral law not just hearers.

Right, he is convicting those who claim that they follow the law. He is showing they don't follow the law. Do you have any understanding of Romans and that it is an argument leading up to salvation by faith? The Bible was not written in chapters and verses - you have to read the whole book of Romans, not just one part and try to interpret that way, which is what you are doing.

14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

I think that you miss the context. Verse 15 "Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!" Paul is speaking to Jewish Christians that wanted to hold on to Jewish understanding of salvation by the works of the Mosaic Law. Paul says we are saved by grace. Does this mean they now sin?? "by no means!" Verse16 " you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness"

Here again scripture tells us it is not faith alone but obedience to God that leads to righteousness. Obedience is a work that is necessary to attain eternal life. Not obedience alone but with faith.

We are saved by grace but we can lose that grace through disobedience to God and we can lose our salvation. I know that is not the Baptist understanding but this is why I am leaving

There is the righteousness we receive upon faith, which is justification, and the righteousness we grow in as a believer matures in Christ and is conformed to the image of Christ. We cannot obey outside of Christ; we have to be saved in order to obey at all, but obedience does not save us, nor does disobedience make us lose salvation; otherwise, several passages in the Bible are wrong.

If you can do something to lose salvation, what does one do to regain it, or what has one done to get it in the first place? Does it make sense to believe that one is saved by faith but can lose salvation by works?

 

[Marcia]

Those of you who do not think Saved by Grace should be posting in this forum need to hit the Report button on one of his posts instead of repeatedly telling him he should leave.

Also, I noted one post asking the mods to do something. That does nothing. You have to report the post - hit the report button instead of complaining.

 

[TCGreek]

I have decided to leave the Baptist Church and look elsewhere. In all honesty I no longer believe that we are saved by faith alone or that we have an absolute assurance of salvation.
It bothers me that when Jesus was asked "what must I do to have eternal life" Jesus answered "keep the commandments". Why would he say that if we are saved by faith alone?

I believe that the apostles accepted Christ as their Savior yet Jesus told them in Matthew 6:15 "if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses". If we are saved by faith alone why would Jesus say that we must do a work of forgiveness or we will not be forgiven?

James says that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24
Why would James, inspired by the Holy Spirit say "not by faith alone?"

If we have absolute assurance of salvation why would the Holy Spirit tell us in Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age, if they then fall away"

My pastor once told me that when I accepted Chirst I became a partaker of the Holy Spirit and I had eternal life. But the Christian here in Hebrews is told that he can fall away and not be restored to repentance.

I need to find something I can believe in.

SBG,

1. You're going against the very notion of what it means to be saved by grace.

2. Your launching text to resolve this whole theological issue regarding salvation is not the best.

3. Why turn to a difficult text like Hebrews 6 to resolve this issue?

My suggestions:

1. Begin with Romans and how Paul roots salvation history in Abraham and what that means. Paul is more didactic and logical in his presentation. The Gospels are of a different genre.

You should not turn to them to settle this matter. That is a mistake. Turn to Paul, for that was his burden.

2. Again, a general rule in reading Scripture for theological resolution is to look at the plain texts to resolve theological difficulties.

3. You're leaving the pure gospel for a heretical teaching of works-based salvation.

James is not teaching salvation by works. That was a mistake of Luther, who by the way was a human being and capable of error in judgment.

I'll be glad to interact with you on this crucial matter.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Please inform me if he posts again in a Baptist only area.

We have pm'd him and informed him that willful violation of his word (character issue) by posting where he is not allowed will be the LAST he posts.