Legal suit questions the citizenship of Obama

[canadyjd]

The site I used had this same clause for if they were married except it says age 14. I know Obama would not qualify even at 14 since that is 4 years and not 5 until his mother was 18.

I do know presidential candidates are vetted by the FBI prior to making the general election since they will get the highest clearance this country has to offer. They are being told national secrets on a daily basis once the make the general election. I would think if this allegation had weight the FBI would be involved and stopped the election by now.

There is no way the FBI would get involved in this mess. It is not against the law to be nominated by your party, even if you aren't eligible.

The courts will have to decide if he is eligible. That is the problem. Instead of producing the birth certificate, Obama and the DNC are asking to delay the decision and their production of the documents until after the election. If the democrats win big, they will simply make the issue go away, if possible.

peace to youraying:

 

[windcatcher]

The link to the legal brief is here:

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federa...ylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/13/0.html

Hopefully this works.

Sorry that I don't have the particulars referenced, but heard that Obama's mother and father returned to Kenya to live: As her pregnancy was nearing its end, Obama's mother sought to return to Hawaii for the birth of her child, but was denied the plane trip due to the risk of going into labor. She went into labor and the child, Obama, was born with the relatives of his father attending the birth, in Kenya. At this time she took the child and flew to Hawaii. Later when she divorces Obama's dad and married an Idoneasian..... her new husband adopted Obama. Indonesia did not recognized dual citizenship, so Obama was considered Indonesian by virtue of adoption. To attend the schools, certification that he was a citizen of Idonesia was required and his adoption was accepted. On the enrollment in school, his religion was recorded by his parents as being Islam and his early education followed that common to Indonesian children.

I have seen the documentation on the internet..... if I find it, I'll try to post it. I can understand the skepticism and desire for proof, particularly from the undecided or by those with whom these issues would make a difference.

 

[windcatcher]

Found this excerpt from a lengthy blog containing it:

This evening, Berg put out a press release entitled "Country Headed to a Constitutional Crisis." Here it is:

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/06/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States, announced today that Obama and Democratic National Committee [DNC] filed a Joint Motion for Protective Order to Stay Discovery Pending a Decision on the Motion to Dismiss they filed on 09/24/08.

While legal, Berg stated he is “outraged as this is another attempt to hide the truth from the public; it is obvious that documents do not exist to prove that Obama is qualified to be President.” The case is Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083.

Their joint motion indicates a concerted effort to avoid the truth by attempting to delay the judicial process, although legal, by not resolving the issue presented: that is, whether Barack Obama meets the qualifications to be President.

It is obvious that Obama was born in Kenya and does not meet the “qualifications” to be President of the United States pursuant to our United States Constitution. Obama cannot produce a certified copy of his “Vault” [original long version] Birth Certificate from Hawaii because it does not exist.

Furthermore, and actually more important is Obama’s Certificate of Citizenship that he received when he returned from Indonesia, as if it exists it would indicate that Obama was “naturalized” and also not able to be President.

The DNC has promised “we the people” an Open and Honest Government and has promised to uphold our United States Constitution. The DNC has failed their promise. DNC Chairperson Howard Dean should resign as he has not and is not fulfilling his responsibility of seeing that a “qualified” candidate is on the ballot as the Democratic candidate for President of the United States.

A response to the Motion for Protective Order should be expected, Berg said, within the next day or two. I have a hunch that the next few days will bring an order of some sort from Judge Surrick. With the three open motions now pending, perhaps he will address all of them at once.

MORE FOUND HERE

Why doesn't he merely produce his BC and be done with it?
Is it in the best interest of our country to leave a constitutional question hanging?
Is this good leadership?
If the courts refuse to hear a question such as this.......then what redress do the citizens have to back us up with the law of the land?

I believe, based upon some quick scanning at this site, that John McCain had a similar court challenge..... and it was dismissed!!!!
The court answered here:

It is clear that mechanisms exist under the Twelfth Amendment and 3 U.S.C. 15 for any challenge to any candidate to be ventilated when electoral votes are counted, and that the Twentieth Amendment provides guidance regarding how to proceed if a president elect shall have failed to qualify. Issues regarding qualifications for president are quintessentially suited to the foregoing process. Arguments concerning qualifications or lack thereof can be laid before the voting public before the election and, once the election is over, can be raised as objections as the electoral votes are counted in Congress. The members of the Senate and the House of Representatives are well qualified to adjudicate any objections to ballots for allegedly unqualified candidates. Therefore, this order holds that the challenge presented by plaintiff is committed under the Constitution to the electors and the legislative branch, at least in the first instance. Judicial review — if any — should occur only after the electoral and Congressional processes have run their course. Texas v. United States, 523 U.S. 296, 300–02 (1998).

Duh?????!!!!!!!!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

His birth cert has been produced - it has been evidenced here many, many times. Factcheck investigated this and actually saw an embossed copy, including the 'blacked out' serial number and posted pdf's of all the docs. A birth announcement from a 1961 newspaper was also photocopied and reproduced.

But, go ahead, follow your dreams that Obama is a Kenyan.

 

[windcatcher]

His birth cert has been produced - it has been evidenced here many, many times. Factcheck investigated this and actually saw an embossed copy, including the 'blacked out' serial number and posted pdf's of all the docs. A birth announcement from a 1961 newspaper was also photocopied and reproduced.

But, go ahead, follow your dreams that Obama is a Kenyan.

I didn't dream the report given by a missionary to Kenya...... However, I'm willing to concede that 'reports', like news, can be misleading if it is based upon hear-say, and not evidence. However, I did see on the internet, documents reported to be admission documents to school in Indonesia in which Obama was registered as "Indonesian" and of the faith of Islam. If I'm not mistaken, it was a school run by Catholics but offered religious training in Islam for those of the Muslim faith. I don't indict him for that. But if he was adopted when Indonesia didn't recognize dual citizenship, then if he was an American citizen by birth, he lost it by adoption through the choice of his parents and when he returned to the states.... it was up to him to get it restored. The latter situation he has not addressed.

I'm 60 y/o and my own birth certificate has my footprints on it. There can be no mistaking of this sort with mine. It is unfortunate that we have these questions, and unfortunate that there is a reluctance to answer them, but even most unfortunate is the ridicule people subject others to for wanting to know the truth concerning issues which should be important to all, But back off! I want answers and these forums are one way to try to find them in exchanges with what others know .... and thanks BTW for the link you provided.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Please note that I have not ridiculed a single poster - if you took my comment about dreams as such, please forgive me. I guess I am frustrated because this particular issue keeps coming up and keeps getting answered.

Unless there was some 'poncho-esque' Islamofascist sleeper plot hatched in 1960 for the express purpose of putting this child into office one day this story remains a non-runner, despite the best netrumours to keep it alive.

I ridicule this type of supposed story and politicking based on such. I ridicule the politics of dredging the barrel when there are real, solid, unquestionable reasons to try and defeat Sen Obama next month.

I just don't think we need this kind of reason when we have massive solid reasons to deny him our vote.

 

[canadyjd]

His birth cert has been produced - it has been evidenced here many, many times. Factcheck investigated this and actually saw an embossed copy, including the 'blacked out' serial number and posted pdf's of all the docs. A birth announcement from a 1961 newspaper was also photocopied and reproduced.

From the article:

FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship.

Since when does FACTCHECK become the judge of what documents are offical or not? In the U.S.A., the courts get to decide which documents are offical, don't they?

You don't find it strange that Obama and the DNC can produce these documents to FACTCHECK, but cannot produce them for a U.S. Court? Why not? Because they want to pretend they are answering the question, when they are, in fact, dodging the issue.

The document they cite is a "copy", not the origional. It is a copy issued in 2007. I work at a Federal office. We have had people come to the office and try to use an "offical copy" of a birth certificate issued by the state that differs from the origional that was issued at the time of birth. The "offical copy" is considered invalid because it differs from the origional.

That is why the person bringing the suit is demanding to see the ORIGIONAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE, not a copy.

Apparently, Obama is unable to produce an origional birth certificate. If he could, this issue would go away.

peace to youraying:

 

[LadyEagle]

From the article: Since when does FACTCHECK become the judge of what documents are offical or not? In the U.S.A., the courts get to decide which documents are offical, don't they?

You don't find it strange that Obama and the DNC can produce these documents to FACTCHECK, but cannot produce them for a U.S. Court? Why not? Because they want to pretend they are answering the question, when they are, in fact, dodging the issue.

The document they cite is a "copy", not the origional. It is a copy issued in 2007. I work at a Federal office. We have had people come to the office and try to use an "offical copy" of a birth certificate issued by the state that differs from the origional that was issued at the time of birth. The "offical copy" is considered invalid because it differs from the origional.

That is why the person bringing the suit is demanding to see the ORIGIONAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE, not a copy.

Apparently, Obama is unable to produce an origional birth certificate. If he could, this issue would go away.

peace to youraying:

Agreed. That is why the story will not go away. If someone has nothing to hide, they will not be secretive. I read one report where the "copy" may have been his sister's that was doctored, not his. Again, if someone has nothing to hide about something as important as this, they will answer these types of allegations by coming clean with verifiable legal proof.

 

[LeBuick]

I'm 60 y/o and my own birth certificate has my footprints on it. There can be no mistaking of this sort with mine..

This would be an area specific thing. You may have had these things done if you lived in the big city but midwives were still used at the time you were born in many of the rural areas particularly in the south. In many of those locations, birth were not officially document until the census people came around.

Not being from HI I have no idea if they were doing footprints in the 60's or not just as I have no idea if they are doing them today. I just don't feel absence or addition of a footprint, though would be nice, doesn't speak to the validity of the document.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Another case of 'guilty until proven innocent' I guess.

In fact, not only proven innocent, but proven innocent to satisfy everyone.

This horse is long dead - time, IMHO, to let it lie.

If our country is in the hands of a conspiracy so deep that election boards don't even know if a man is a citizen or not, it is all helpless anyway, so why bother.

 

[LeBuick]

You don't find it strange that Obama and the DNC can produce these documents to FACTCHECK, but cannot produce them for a U.S. Court? Why not? Because they want to pretend they are answering the question, when they are, in fact, dodging the issue.

I disagree though each is entitled to their opinion. Sounds like Obama allowed a bipartisan group to touch, handle, scrutinize the actual document. It's not uncommon to not cooperate with an investigation deemed a "witch hunt". Palin took this same position in AK to the point of having subpena'd people like her husband not appear as requested.

Let's face it, what make PA feel they can make this request after the FBI has already vetted this candidate? Why haven't they asked the McCain campaign to produce the same documents? Isn't this a form of discrimination to call only one candidate out and ask for any document the others haven't had to produce to the same court? I don't blame Obama if he allows this to go to the US supreme court just on principle.

The document they cite is a "copy", not the origional. It is a copy issued in 2007. I work at a Federal office. We have had people come to the office and try to use an "offical copy" of a birth certificate issued by the state that differs from the origional that was issued at the time of birth. The "offical copy" is considered invalid because it differs from the origional.

That is why the person bringing the suit is demanding to see the ORIGIONAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE, not a copy.

Apparently, Obama is unable to produce an origional birth certificate. If he could, this issue would go away.

peace to youraying:

There are a myriad of reasons one may not be able to produce an original birth certificate. Just because you've seen people attempt fraud with a copy shouldn't make every copy suspect. Many people have only an official copy which when signed and sealed by the state is supposed to be considered official. This is why the person "demanding the original document" has no legal ground to stand. If "official copies" weren't legal, the FBI wouldn't have accepted Obama and states wouldn't be giving them out.

Lastly, I don't think it would be too hard for an investigator to go to HI and prove the document a fake since the state has the records. Why don't the judge subpoena the state of HI? My thoughts, legally he doesn't have the power he is wielding which is another reason this should go to the US Supreme court.

 

[webdog]

Another case of 'guilty until proven innocent' I guess.

In fact, not only proven innocent, but proven innocent to satisfy everyone.

This horse is long dead - time, IMHO, to let it lie.

If our country is in the hands of a conspiracy so deep that election boards don't even know if a man is a citizen or not, it is all helpless anyway, so why bother.

Circumstantial evidence plays into one's guilt. A guilty demeanor and non cooperation is circumstantial evidence. Look at OJ Simpson. He fought the courts tooth and nail (actually hair and nail) to determine how few hairs he would supply for DNA testing. This is NOT the characteristic of an innocent man, and you know it. All BHO has to do is supply the documents required and this whole mess will go away. HE is fueling the fire by not doing so.

 

[canadyjd]

I disagree though each is entitled to their opinion. Sounds like Obama allowed a bipartisan group to touch, handle, scrutinize the actual document. It's not uncommon to not cooperate with an investigation deemed a "witch hunt". Palin took this same position in AK to the point of having subpena'd people like her husband not appear as requested.

First, this is not an "investigation". This is not a "witch hunt". Unlike the "investigation" in AK, this is a case pending before a judge. The judge has ordered the documents to be produced. Obama and the DNC are stalling until after the election.

Let's face it, what make PA feel they can make this request after the FBI has already vetted this candidate?

I have never heard that candidates are "vetted" by the FBI to make sure they are legal citizens. Certainly, routine background checks would be in order. I don't think the FBI would handle this issue, but I could be wrong. They should be vetted by their party.

Why haven't they asked the McCain campaign to produce the same documents? Isn't this a form of discrimination to call only one candidate out and ask for any document the others haven't had to produce to the same court?

If I remember correctly, the issue was raised early with McCain. I think McCain was born on a military base overseas, and some where trying to say he was disqualified because of that. Unlike Obama, McCain cooperated and the matter was cleared up early.

Don't you think it is discrimination to hold McCain to a higher standard than Obama?

I don't blame Obama if he allows this to go to the US supreme court just on principle.

You don't put the country through a constitutional crisis to prove a personal point.

There are a myriad of reasons one may not be able to produce an original birth certificate.

And Obama has not given even one.

Lastly, I don't think it would be too hard for an investigator to go to HI and prove the document a fake since the state has the records.

Unless the records don't exist.

Why don't the judge subpoena the state of HI? My thoughts, legally he doesn't have the power he is wielding which is another reason this should go to the US Supreme court.

The judge has ruled that Obama and the DNC are to produce the records. Obama and the DNC have filed motions to delay the production of the records until after the election.

Maybe Obama doesn't have anything to hide. Based on his behavior in court, however, it looks like he does.

Why not just release the origional birth certificate and close this issue forever?

peace to youraying:

 

[LadyEagle]

If our country is in the hands of a conspiracy so deep that election boards don't even know if a man is a citizen or not, it is all helpless anyway, so why bother.

So giving the most powerful position in the world to a man we aren't even sure is legally a citizen doesn't bother you? Some of us still care. Obama has a proven record of deceit and lying on other issues until it becomes politically expedient for him to come clean & this is just one more issue of him being evasive which shows me he has something to hide - maybe the truth, again.

Plus, the fact that he wants to delay showing proof to the court shows he has no respect for the Rule of Law. And yet, he is probably going to appoint Supreme Court Justices if elected? Are these some of the changes Americans should expect under an Obama administration? Well, maybe you are right, CK, let's just have anarchy. Our country looks to be headed that way anyway.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Another case of 'guilty until proven innocent' I guess.

In fact, not only proven innocent, but proven innocent to satisfy everyone.

This horse is long dead - time, IMHO, to let it lie.

If our country is in the hands of a conspiracy so deep that election boards don't even know if a man is a citizen or not, it is all helpless anyway, so why bother.

It's a PA judge doing it, and that makes it a worthy discussion subject. It's not us. It's not our fault.

 

[betterthanideserve]

Is it possible that Obama is not a naturally born citizen of the United States?

"Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room."



http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=3324 http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/3074

 

[betterthanideserve]

Maybe he IS a KENYAN.
Maybe he IS the False Prophet or the Anti Christ.
Maybe we ARE living in the LAST days.

Why would his grandmother say that she remembers being in the delivery room IN Kenya?

Please see the link to Israel national news on my thread about this subject.

Is it possible that Obama is not a naturally born citizen of the United States?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

It's a PA judge doing it, and that makes it a worthy discussion subject. It's not us. It's not our fault.

Not blaming anyone here alone - blaming all the dead horse beaters.

 

[Bible-boy]

Not blaming anyone here alone - blaming all the dead horse beaters.

As long as it is an unsettled issue before a US court it is not a "dead horse" being beaten.:tonofbricks:

 

[LeBuick]

The judge has ruled that Obama and the DNC are to produce the records. :

According to truth or fiction, this entire case is fiction http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-ordered-by-judge.htm

There are several other fact checking sites that agree with this.

Also, in the OP it clearly says.

About the first of October a Pa. court judge rulled that Obama has to provide a legal birth cirtificate or a certified copy of one from the state he claims to have been born in.

He has produced a certified copy so even if the case did exist, he satisfied the requirement.