Let God Be True

[OldRegular]

The following Scripture are sufficient evidence to all but the blind that those whom GOD saves He keeps Eternally Secure.

1 Corinthians 1:1-9 KJV
1. Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2. Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3. Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4. I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5. That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6. Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7. So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8. Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 6:17-20 KJV
17. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18. That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19. Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20. Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:22-28 KJV
22. By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27. Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

John 6:35-40, KJV
35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day

John 10:27-30, KJV
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
30. I and [my] Father are one.

Romans 8:28-30, KJV
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1 John 5:10-13, KJV
10. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12. He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The above Scripture clearly show that those who deny the Eternal Security of the true believers make GOD a liar.

 

[Jedi Knight]

But a stranger they will by no means follow, but will run away from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers John 10:5 One of my favorites.:wavey:

 

[OldRegular]

But a stranger they will by no means follow, but will run away from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers John 10:5 One of my favorites.:wavey:

Mine also. Would that some on this forum believed the same way.

By the way I like your [whatever they call it] below the line!:thumbs:

 

[Jedi Knight]

Here's another I like to complement John 10:5 Matthew 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Not gonna happen!:godisgood:

 

[Jedi Knight]

Debate but not with a hint of hate.

 

[MACE16]

I'm loving the verses guys. My wife and I both come from charismatic backgrounds, so the security of the believer was an issue that I wholeheartedly disagreed with in my young Christian life. When I got tired of trying to be "perfect", I started searching the Scriptures. My security in Christ has brought me into a better and more obedient relationship to Him.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Hello MACE16,I have been through the wringer myself...United Pentecostal,Church of Christ,Roman Catholic,whew how did God save me through it all?? I believe Jesus gave this example in the Sheep and the false shepherds. John chapter 9-10 is a great passage and if you have never seen the Gospel of John here is an insert http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIrPq8pG6Sk

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Mace16: My security in Christ has brought me into a better and more obedient relationship to Him.

HP: Care to expound on that? In what ways have you became more obedient? We all need to know everything we can about that subject.

 

[Jedi Knight]

HP: "Care to expound on that? In what ways have you became more obedient? We all need to know everything we can about that subject. "If your going to ask to learn great,but if your trying to start a debate.....not wise. Show your intentions up front.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

OR: The above Scripture clearly show that those who deny the Eternal Security of the true believers make GOD a liar.

HP: Great passages of Scripture. They certainly do not establish OSAS. Which one would you like to show how it establishes OSAS? Then we can discuss your interpretation of it.

 

[Jedi Knight]

"They certainly do not establish OSAS" In your mind is does not. But to others its peace and joy. You are just as dogmatic to oppose and say he is a liar by saying it doesn't support OSAS . One guy gave testimony to freedom and you come in with the chains of "did God say?":tonofbricks:

 

[MACE16]

HP: Care to expound on that? In what ways have you became more obedient? We all need to know everything we can about that subject.

Hey, Pilgrim. Well, here is my experience. I was saved at the age of 13 in an Assembly of God church. Now, I was taught that Christ had forgiven my sins, but from that point on, I had to live the life. Part of living the life was not sinning. So, in my 13 year old brain, I thought I had this. First week goes by, I think a few things I should not have, and I say a few things I should not have. At this point, guilt gets to me, as it should. Well, instead of being told about confession and repentance to restore fellowship, I am now told that I have backslidden and need to be restored in the faith.

So, I go find a sinner's prayer and read that, convinced I needed to be saved again. After about a year, this grew quite wearisome. I was saved, then lost, saved, then lost, etc.. There is no feeling, to me, that is worse than laying down at night trying to make sure you have recalled all of your sins in fear that if they are not confessed, I may very well wake up in Hell. In a sense, Christ was not a Savior at that point, He was a cruel taskmaster ready and willing to whack me at any time for messing up. My obedience was given out of fear, much like the obedience a beaten dog gives.

Long story short, by age 17 I met a Baptist youth minister through an athletic league. A mentor relationship grew out of this. I would speak to him about my struggles with this particular subject. Eventually, through my own study, I came to the realization of my security in Christ. How wonderful it is to serve a loving, forgiving Father.

My obedience to Him is now out of love, not out of fear. This changes my outlook on everything. I still maintain a very healthy fear of God, and I think all believers should. But it is a wonderful feeling, to lay my head down at night at realize that I am His and nothing can ever change that.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Thank you Mace16 for sharing that.:thumbs:

 

[OldRegular]

OR: The above Scripture clearly show that those who deny the Eternal Security of the true believers make GOD a liar.

HP: Great passages of Scripture. They certainly do not establish OSAS. Which one would you like to show how it establishes OSAS? Then we can discuss your interpretation of it.

All these Scripture show that those who are saved by the Grace of God are kept Eternally Secure by Him. If you cannot understand that from these Scripture then you are to be most pitied and nothing I can add to them will change your mind. You must understand that in denying that God keeps those who belong to Him you are making salvation the purview of man, not the Grace of God. It was this error of the Roman Catholic Church that brought on the Reformation yet some still cling to this heresy.

I posted similar passages on another thread, Dead Believers. You fail to respond there also. These Scripture, particularly the ones from the Gospel of John, are so plain that they should require no interpretation. They are self explanatory to all but those whose mind is closed.

 

[Jedi Knight]

2Cor 1:21,22 "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.":godisgood:

 

[OldRegular]

Hey, Pilgrim. Well, here is my experience. I was saved at the age of 13 in an Assembly of God church. Now, I was taught that Christ had forgiven my sins, but from that point on, I had to live the life. Part of living the life was not sinning. So, in my 13 year old brain, I thought I had this. First week goes by, I think a few things I should not have, and I say a few things I should not have. At this point, guilt gets to me, as it should. Well, instead of being told about confession and repentance to restore fellowship, I am now told that I have backslidden and need to be restored in the faith.

So, I go find a sinner's prayer and read that, convinced I needed to be saved again. After about a year, this grew quite wearisome. I was saved, then lost, saved, then lost, etc.. There is no feeling, to me, that is worse than laying down at night trying to make sure you have recalled all of your sins in fear that if they are not confessed, I may very well wake up in Hell. In a sense, Christ was not a Savior at that point, He was a cruel taskmaster ready and willing to whack me at any time for messing up. My obedience was given out of fear, much like the obedience a beaten dog gives.

Long story short, by age 17 I met a Baptist youth minister through an athletic league. A mentor relationship grew out of this. I would speak to him about my struggles with this particular subject. Eventually, through my own study, I came to the realization of my security in Christ. How wonderful it is to serve a loving, forgiving Father.

My obedience to Him is now out of love, not out of fear. This changes my outlook on everything. I still maintain a very healthy fear of God, and I think all believers should. But it is a wonderful feeling, to lay my head down at night at realize that I am His and nothing can ever change that.

Mace16

What a wonderful testimony! What you went through for a short time is similar to the struggle that the Roman Catholic priest, Martin Luther, endured for years. Eventually he came to the understanding that we are justified by faith and the Reformation was born. The remarkable thing is that though this truth is clearly taught is Scripture it took Luther years to recognize that truth. This is a testimony to the strength of erroneous doctrine in the lives of believers.

I have often wondered how those who are saved yet do not believe that they are kept Eternally Secure by God are able to sleep at night, believing that some unconfessed sin might determine their eternal existence rather than the God who saved them.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Mace16: So, I go find a sinner's prayer and read that, convinced I needed to be saved again. After about a year, this grew quite wearisome. I was saved, then lost, saved, then lost, etc.. There is no feeling, to me, that is worse than laying down at night trying to make sure you have recalled all of your sins in fear that if they are not confessed, I may very well wake up in Hell. In a sense, Christ was not a Savior at that point, He was a cruel taskmaster ready and willing to whack me at any time for messing up. My obedience was given out of fear, much like the obedience a beaten dog gives.

Long story short, by age 17 I met a Baptist youth minister through an athletic league. A mentor relationship grew out of this. I would speak to him about my struggles with this particular subject. Eventually, through my own study, I came to the realization of my security in Christ. How wonderful it is to serve a loving, forgiving Father.

HP: This is a hard testimony to just read once and let go. I cannot help but wonder what sin it was that had such a hold on you that you were not willing to let it go. Nothing short of a guilty conscience would keep one up like that at night. That must have been a miserable time in your life, knowing what to do but unwilling to do it.

Even till the age of 17 you were still struggling with the same sin it would seem from your own testimony. There is something about sin that is true without exception. The longer one persists in a certain sin the more sins that develop in ones life. By seventeen your conscience had to be working overtime considering the knowledge of the truth you once had concerning salvation from sin. Sin simply never stays stagnate. It grows and festers.

Now you finally meet one with a message that you seem to get some relief from. Security in Christ, that’s the ticket. Now I can be secure in spite of the sin is what your testimony ‘appears’ to say to me. I do not see any testimony of deliverance from the problem that had existed for years causing the guilty conscience, just a new cover for an old and still prevalent problem with the guilt from a besetting sin.

Tell me I am wrong. Tell me that your new found friend and his message delivered you from your besetting sin(s) and that now you live free from the sins that pained your conscience, having been delivered from the power of those sins to enslave you. Have you been delivered or have you just found a doctrine that applies suave to the guilt of sin?

 

[Jedi Knight]

"HP: This is a hard testimony to just read once and let go":laugh: The temptation was too much 4 U :laugh:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Old Regular: All these Scripture show that those who are saved by the Grace of God are kept Eternally Secure by Him. If you cannot understand that from these Scripture then you are to be most pitied and nothing I can add to them will change your mind.

HP: My, that’s right out of the old play book. For some strange reason your pity fails to move me. Suppose I would say the same things back to you? What would it prove? How have I shown the strength of what I believe is true? What would I have added to meaningful debate by such remarks? What if I simply listed a litany of Scripture and used your playbook in reverse?

In a debate OR, it does little to no good to simply list a bunch of Scriptures without any interpretation given as to their meanings. Do you think I have not read and studied the passages you mention? I can assure you that there is a great difference among differing schools of thought on these passages. Scripture is of no private interpretation, and to assume it is in a debate is less than meaningful.

Again, save your pity. What some novice debater might attempt to uitilize in a debate with an Atheist is useless here.

Try taking one or two of the best pasages and give us your interpretation of them. Then we can have a meaningful debate. If you are not willing to do this, a debate forum is most likely not the best place for you traverse. :thumbs:

 

[Jedi Knight]

http://www.wvlightning.com/saved2.shtml