thomas15
Well-Known Member
That be J.N.Darby, the "father" of dispensationalism and the object of your scorn?
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Let Jesus be Jesus and Preterism Rings and Reigns all through the Bible
- Thread starter Logos1
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That be J.N.Darby, the "father" of dispensationalism and the object of your scorn?
:wavey:
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humblethinker
Active Member
Logos! I have a new respect for you! (Actually, I don't think I had any opinion of you heretofore but... you know what I mean, right?) You are hilarious! I love it when people interject humor into their posts and arguments. Life is more fun when we can laugh together and at each other and still have disagreements. I will consider your argument even moreso because of it! So long as it is not true mockery, I think presenting an argument with humor generally shows a confidence and maybe even is evidence of a mastery of the subject at hand. One sure way to know if people are tracking with you in an argument is to use humor and if they don't respond appropriately then you can be confident that they are not tracking with you. So... this subject is interesting to me and though I'm not 'on board' know that I'm tracking with you... Thanks!
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This is engaging in an attempt to "shift burden of proof"...(Another logical and debate fallacy you are engaging in)
This is also an example of poor debate....One I, (at least) will not fall for.
You have made positive and ill-advised assertions in support of your theological pre-dispositions...we have NO task, or requirement, other than to expose it's failings....Sorry, man....that's how real debate works.:wavey:
This is "question begging"...at minimum...MOST, if not ALL (generally conservative) Theological positions expressed in Scripture will feel consistent if the whole of Scripture is involved...The exact converse might be asked of you yourself...
Read it from a "dispensational" perspective...and you will also find "harmony"...Most Conservative Theological perspectives do....
Here is your fallacy: You think that
"Consistency" = "Validity" and "Validity"= "Soundness"
You are wrong:
A "Consistent" or "Valid" argument, is not sufficient to create a "Sound" one:
And it is painfully obvious that you are unaware of the distinction.
I leave it now, to your Pre-terist freinds (whom you are embarrassing) to explain this to you....
There are numerous arguments, and fallacies of yours I might continue to expose, but this is sufficient for now.
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humblethinker
Active Member
Hyper cal and arminianism are not each extremes at opposite ends of the spectrum... Only hylercal is.It is amazing just how many people reject one error by going to the opposite extreme and embrace the oppsoing error, so for example Hyper Calvinists become Arminian, and vice versa - or futurists become preterists and vice-versa, when the truth lies with the historists who see elements of furturism in prophecy, but equally see elements also fullfilled
In my Gomer Pyle voice
You mean the darby version was written by J.N. Darby well surprise, surprise, surprise who woulda thunk it. Bless his heart.
You mean the darby version was written by J.N. Darby well surprise, surprise, surprise who woulda thunk it. Bless his heart.
It will be our little secret
Ya’ll don’t tell Thomas that I sort of suspected all along that darby wrote the darby translation.
It is always hoot to use his own translation against his seminal work of dispensationalism. He was a better translator than he was a prophet. The biography of darby is actually most fascinating and loads of entertainment to read and I would recommend it to all. To think he could create a theology that contradicts his own translation of the scriptures is pretty interesting. Further, Darby didn’t even have a rapture event in his early works, but after he painted himself into a corner he evolved a magical disappearing act to try to save his doctrine. Like him or not he was a very entertaining character.
He struggled for respectability in the religious community all his life and if he were alive today would no doubt be very pleased that he has such a large following in America, but would no doubt correct his latter day followers on where they went astray from his vision of prophecy.
Ya’ll don’t tell Thomas that I sort of suspected all along that darby wrote the darby translation.
It is always hoot to use his own translation against his seminal work of dispensationalism. He was a better translator than he was a prophet. The biography of darby is actually most fascinating and loads of entertainment to read and I would recommend it to all. To think he could create a theology that contradicts his own translation of the scriptures is pretty interesting. Further, Darby didn’t even have a rapture event in his early works, but after he painted himself into a corner he evolved a magical disappearing act to try to save his doctrine. Like him or not he was a very entertaining character.
He struggled for respectability in the religious community all his life and if he were alive today would no doubt be very pleased that he has such a large following in America, but would no doubt correct his latter day followers on where they went astray from his vision of prophecy.
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Don’t be a victim of futurism IV
Not only do all the specific time verses tell us that Christ will return soon, but even the less direct statements that are primarily addressing some other topic also lend direct support to a soon coming of Christ. When you read the bible from a preterist perspective you are blessed with seeing all inspired scripture fall into such beautiful harmony.
For example:
Romans 13:12 The night is almost over and the day is near.
Hebrews 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Hebrews 10:37 Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;
You can constantly see in all these little ways all throughout the New Testament that the return of Christ is near, the end of the age is at hand, and the day of the Lord is almost upon them as indeed history bore out in 70 AD.
Don’t be a victim of futurism.
Not only do all the specific time verses tell us that Christ will return soon, but even the less direct statements that are primarily addressing some other topic also lend direct support to a soon coming of Christ. When you read the bible from a preterist perspective you are blessed with seeing all inspired scripture fall into such beautiful harmony.
For example:
Romans 13:12 The night is almost over and the day is near.
Hebrews 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Hebrews 10:37 Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;
You can constantly see in all these little ways all throughout the New Testament that the return of Christ is near, the end of the age is at hand, and the day of the Lord is almost upon them as indeed history bore out in 70 AD.
Don’t be a victim of futurism.
humblethinker
Active Member
Well, after reading your posts in this thread I think I was probably mistaken in thinking that you were just employing bravado and shtick.
Good to see you back, Logos. When I have time I want to add to this thread too. We have just returned last night from a 10-day trip here in China.
Now that I finished my writing assignment, I can get to posting here as well. I don't know if you were aware of it, Logos, but there is a Preterist Bible being published in a very short while, first online then hardcover.
I was busy doing the Ezra-Nehemiah introduction, but it is now finished. Much harder than I had imagined.
Back to the OP: There are several apocalyptic image comings in the OT, in Isa. and elsewhere, that definitely get short shrift from futurist interpreters.
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Bronconagurski
New Member
If preterism is so apparent in the bible, then why do you need a special bible to explain it? You people are sounding more and more like the Jehovah Witness crowd, imo.
Predictable JW cheap shot. "You people" have your own futurist-biased Bibles. You just don't know it. I would go into detail - it is very rich topic - but it is off-topic here.
Special bible? My Geneva & KJV give the same soon, quickly, this generation, etc grammatical context for judgement against Israel. They both show the high priest witnessing this with a "coming in clouds" judgement metaphor. What bible are you using that speaks of the prophesied judgement in thousands of years to generations not yet born? I think you're using the special bible.
Bronconagurski
New Member
Methinks y'all sure enough do protest too much.
Bronconagurski
New Member
"What bible are you using that speaks of the prophesied judgement in thousands of years to generations not yet born? I think you're using the special bible."
The bible I use says no man knows the day nor the hour. You people are the ones that claim you do know when everything happened. Now exactly when did the abomination of desolation take place? Not the one with the pig, but the one where a man sets himself up as god in the temple? Or have you spiritualized that like every other thing you can't answer?
The bible I use says no man knows the day nor the hour. You people are the ones that claim you do know when everything happened. Now exactly when did the abomination of desolation take place? Not the one with the pig, but the one where a man sets himself up as god in the temple? Or have you spiritualized that like every other thing you can't answer?
Bronconagurski
New Member
Boys, being able to spiritualize everything to fit your opinions is like being the house at Las Vegas. You never lose.
Matthew 24:21-23 (ESV)
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
Please, someone explain when this event happened. It will be a time like no other upon the earth, yet I am sure A.D. 70, bad as it was, didn't come close to that description. And if Christ came back then, why the admonition not to believe it? Logically speaking you don't have a leg to stand upon. Only made up spiritualizations.
Matthew 24:21-23 (ESV)
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
Please, someone explain when this event happened. It will be a time like no other upon the earth, yet I am sure A.D. 70, bad as it was, didn't come close to that description. And if Christ came back then, why the admonition not to believe it? Logically speaking you don't have a leg to stand upon. Only made up spiritualizations.