Let's see SCRIPTURAL authority for popes, cardinals, etc.

[Yeshua1]

Not cool. I suppose then that all the Letters to the churches are for your crew only ? I am excluding the Orthodox from them too because I am sure you feel the same way about them, being closely related to the RCC in many theology doctrines and all.

So as I said , all the Letter's to the Churches must be for you and your crew. That makes you all in a heap of trouble. I mean according to your opinion then, it would seem that you should know better and have gotten all things right by now. And since one of the Queens well was never part of Christ and is a Cult according to you, that would make them cold.

You know " I would rather that you were cold or hot , but because you are lukewarm I am about to spew you from My mouth".
Cold means you never knew Christ or accepted Him and HOT means you are on fire with the Holy Spirit and Lukewarm, well...... worse than being cold, because you know Christ and the truth and choose to be a back slider and have a little bit of this and that of the world, and heavenly things when convenient . That kind of person , people church = condition makes Him sick! Once He spews you out you are done!

So, like I said according to your opinion the Catholics are not Christian to be begin with so they must be COLD and better off than you. Not to mention all the other Letters that spell trouble for SIN ,that must be shed.


Wow! I read those Letter's and get them . I have been here for your crew only, all along. I mean according to your view. So I do not need to admonish anyone , of the Catholic denomination ( I mean cult). Because after all the letters are for the Churches not cults.
C'est la vie. I guess I will continue with all of the Protestants then and all their sects.

My take is that there are saved Catholics within the RCC, but the doctrine and theology of that Church is Apostate!

And the Church did not give us the scriptures, as that was given to us by the Holy Spirit Himself!

 

[OfLivingWaters]

My take is that there are saved Catholics within the RCC, but the doctrine and theology of that Church is Apostate!

And the Church did not give us the scriptures, as that was given to us by the Holy Spirit Himself!

That's an oxymoron. Apostate is worse than heretic. So no truth, really? Please by all means explain...... you have my undivided attention. I mean you come from perfection and all and yet speak in oxymoron examples..

 

[robycop3]

2 timothy 2:2

. 2The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.


Here we got 3 generations biblical confirmed to be taught ORALLY. You got PAUL, TIMOTHY and WHO TIMOTHY TEACHES.




You have this fantasy idea that after the very last verse of the bible all the apostles up and zipped to heaven.

John was still around for generation of bishop to show up.



“Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry” (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]). Clement I


Now you might hear ABOUT CLEMENT in scripture

Philippians 4

3Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

But just because Clement wrote stuff doesn't make his stuff holy scripture. It also doesn't make it false.

The early church fathers all doing catholic stuff and saying catholic things.

Even your buddy DR OAKS says WE got the lineage to JESUS CHRIST.

How silly !

NO apostolic succession in Scripture.
NO pope in Scripture.
Nothing but someone's imagination & guesswork hundreds of years ago.

NOTHING BUT FALSE DOCTRINES.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

How silly !

NO apostolic succession in Scripture.
NO pope in Scripture.
Nothing but someone's imagination & guesswork hundreds of years ago.

NOTHING BUT FALSE DOCTRINES.

Well then, you better stop preaching because preaching means you must be in that order ?Which means you continue the Apostolic Succession by holding to what was handed down to us through the apostles. There names are in the foundation right, according to the book of Revelation, right?

2 Thessalonians 2:
Stand Firm

13But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth. 14To this He called you( through our gospel), so that you may share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.

16Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God our Father, who by grace has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good word and deed.

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I commend you for remembering me in everything and for maintaining the traditions, just as I passed them on to you.

1 Corinthians 16:13
Be on the alert. Stand firm in the faith. Be men of courage. Be strong.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who leads an undisciplined life that is not in keeping with the tradition you received from us.

Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it was taught, so that by sound teaching he will be able to encourage others and refute those who contradict this message.

2 Timothy 1:12-14
Hold to Sound Teaching
12For this reason, even though I suffer as I do, I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him for that day. 13Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching you have heard from me, with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 14Guard the treasure entrusted to you, with the help of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.…

NOW without a doubt, men have fallen out of order. The order is following in suit with what they have taught and lived. If a man is not doing that it is clear ......HE IS NOT PART OF THE APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION and preserving the treasures (KEYS TO ETERNAL LIFE).
Wow people are in a lot of trouble. I pray that I NEVER fall out of the order.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Revelation 21:14-15The New Jerusalem
14The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15The angel who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod to measure the city and its gates and its walls.…

I am commissioned to preserve and pass on the Order. Some refuse to hear truth and stay within that order.

 

[atpollard]

The Baptist sect was founded by a man named John Smythe, who himself was a former Church of England minister. He was a renegade of the renegades - even they didn't go far enough according to him!

Essentially correct. What is the point of only tearing off half of the wood, hay and stubble added by careless builders? It is necessary to strip away all of the garbage and get back to the ROCK solid foundation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the teaching of the actual Apostles.

Is 90% spiritual food and 10% human tradition poison really much better than 50% spiritual food and 50% human tradition poison? I want 100% spiritual food and you can keep your contra-scriptural human traditions if you really want a some ‘religious’ poison with your Spiritual new man.

 

[atpollard]

Well then, you better stop preaching because preaching means you must be in that order ?

Was there a verse that says only “Apostles” should preach?

 

[atpollard]

Revelation 21:14-15The New Jerusalem
14The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15The angel who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod to measure the city and its gates and its walls.…

I am commissioned to preserve and pass on the Order. Some refuse to hear truth and stay within that order.

What were the names of the twelve apostles written on the foundations?

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Pope is th

Was there a verse that says only “Apostles” should preach?

No. Was that what I said? But you better be in line with them or you do not know anything concerning the Lord whom they testify of. Friends/companions of the apostles are proof that they brought into the fold others who stayed in line with their teachings.They are included in helping uphold the Apostolic Succession. Timothy for one is evidence of this.

 

[utilyan]

Essentially correct. What is the point of only tearing off half of the wood, hay and stubble added by careless builders? It is necessary to strip away all of the garbage and get back to the ROCK solid foundation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the teaching of the actual Apostles.

Is 90% spiritual food and 10% human tradition poison really much better than 50% spiritual food and 50% human tradition poison? I want 100% spiritual food and you can keep your contra-scriptural human traditions if you really want a some ‘religious’ poison with your Spiritual new man.

" contra-scriptural human traditions" The greatest one being Sola Scriptura. Which is why one day a guy will leave YOUR denomination to start a new one.

 

[robycop3]

Well then, you better stop preaching because preaching means you must be in that order ?Which means you continue the Apostolic Succession by holding to what was handed down to us through the apostles. There names are in the foundation right, according to the book of Revelation, right?

2 Thessalonians 2:
Stand Firm

13But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth. 14To this He called you( through our gospel), so that you may share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.

16Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God our Father, who by grace has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good word and deed.

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I commend you for remembering me in everything and for maintaining the traditions, just as I passed them on to you.

1 Corinthians 16:13
Be on the alert. Stand firm in the faith. Be men of courage. Be strong.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who leads an undisciplined life that is not in keeping with the tradition you received from us.

Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it was taught, so that by sound teaching he will be able to encourage others and refute those who contradict this message.

2 Timothy 1:12-14
Hold to Sound Teaching
12For this reason, even though I suffer as I do, I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him for that day. 13Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching you have heard from me, with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 14Guard the treasure entrusted to you, with the help of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.…

NOW without a doubt, men have fallen out of order. The order is following in suit with what they have taught and lived. If a man is not doing that it is clear ......HE IS NOT PART OF THE APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION and preserving the treasures (KEYS TO ETERNAL LIFE).
Wow people are in a lot of trouble. I pray that I NEVER fall out of the order.

Jesus had the Holy Spirit enable the apostles to do miracles, especially those of healing.That was NOT passed on to any successors.

There were other preachers during the apostles' lifetimes, of course, but they didn't do miracles.And these included people who'd seen Jesus heal people, or had heard Him preach. These men told their children & others what they'd seen, who told their own offspring, etc. But NONE had the special power & authority God gave the apostles. When the last of them died, (most likely John) there were no more apostles.

 

[robycop3]

" contra-scriptural human traditions" The greatest one being Sola Scriptura. Which is why one day a guy will leave YOUR denomination to start a new one.

Please show us any other RELIABLE source of intel about God. If you say, "Granny, my pastor, Uncle Joe, this travelling evangelist", etc. the ULTIMATE source of THEIR intel about God was the BIBLE !

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Jesus had the Holy Spirit enable the apostles to do miracles, especially those of healing.That was NOT passed on to any successors.

There were other preachers during the apostles' lifetimes, of course, but they didn't do miracles.And these included people who'd seen Jesus heal people, or had heard Him preach. These men told their children & others what they'd seen, who told their own offspring, etc. But NONE had the special power & authority God gave the apostles. When the last of them died, (most likely John) there were no more apostles.

Well...... the only things you have shown in this response is : lack of understanding and that you have not come across a believer. .
Mark 16:16-18…16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”…

So clearly the lack of this among those who identify as Christian, simply shows the LACK of true belief in Christ. Because all who believe, according to Christ, come with the sign's mentioned. That is why in the Rev.12 sign the Woman brings forth the Male Child who WAS caught up to God and His throne. These sign's will be present with the TRUE believers of this age.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

And Robycop, it is also clear that throughout Christianity's history there have been saints. Not many with such gifts but they have been throughout Christian history and have come with the very sign's mentioned. Just because you do not acknowledge any saint existed before your crew ( that has not demonstrated such sign's) does not mean saints did not exist before your history even began.
The lack of the presents of these gifts FOR MOST, shows that though many are called the FEW are chosen.

 

[utilyan]

Jesus had the Holy Spirit enable the apostles to do miracles, especially those of healing.That was NOT passed on to any successors.

There were other preachers during the apostles' lifetimes, of course, but they didn't do miracles.And these included people who'd seen Jesus heal people, or had heard Him preach. These men told their children & others what they'd seen, who told their own offspring, etc. But NONE had the special power & authority God gave the apostles. When the last of them died, (most likely John) there were no more apostles.

“Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” James 5:14-16


I suggest you read where Jesus appointed 70 other disciples. Thats Luke 10


1 Corinthians 12

27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
And I show you a still more excellent way.


Titus 2

15These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

 

[robycop3]

Well...... the only things you have shown in this response is : lack of understanding and that you have not come across a believer. .
Mark 16:16-18…16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”…

So clearly the lack of this among those who identify as Christian, simply shows the LACK of true belief in Christ. Because all who believe, according to Christ, come with the sign's mentioned. That is why in the Rev.12 sign the Woman brings forth the Male Child who WAS caught up to God and His throne. These sign's will be present with the TRUE believers of this age.

Just plain goofy. There have been MANY Christians, including myself, who have never spoken in new tongues, never performed an exorcism, & wouldn't DARE GOD by deliberately picking up a poisonous snake or deliberately drinking a poison, or perform a healing.

This is just pentecostal nonsense.

I once recorded from a Rod Parsley show where he was supposed to be speaking in an unknown tongue & sent it off to a language professor. After sharing it with several other scholars, he replied, "There's no pattern of coherency in this speech, nothing that could be construed as words in any language, known or unknown. It's just random sounds, consistent with the imagination of an English speaker." among other things he said.

Besides, if it'd actually been an "unknown tongue", it was not in accordance with Paul's guidelines given to him by the HOLY SPIRIT, which say there must be an interpreter present, or otherwise, let the speaker hold his peace.

 

[robycop3]

“Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” James 5:14-16


I suggest you read where Jesus appointed 70 other disciples. Thats Luke 10


1 Corinthians 12

27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
And I show you a still more excellent way.


Titus 2

15These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

And that authority and also discipleship/apostleship was not passed down. It can't be. When the last apostle died, there were no more apostles, simple as THAT !

 

[Jerome]

Jesus had the Holy Spirit enable the apostles to do miracles, especially those of healing.That was NOT passed on....There were other preachers during the apostles' lifetimes, of course, but they didn't do miracles.

Huh?

Acts 6:5-6
...Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip...
the Apostles...laid their hands on them...

Acts 6:8
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Hallelujah!

Didn't do miracles, eh?

 

[utilyan]

And that authority and also discipleship/apostleship was not passed down. It can't be. When the last apostle died, there were no more apostles, simple as THAT !

"discipleship" not passed down. That is the craziest thing I ever heard.

Matthew 28

19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”



I got a scripture come back for ever challenge given. You gave us two things, Jack and Squat.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Just plain goofy. There have been MANY Christians, including myself, who have never spoken in new tongues, never performed an exorcism, & wouldn't DARE GOD by deliberately picking up a poisonous snake or deliberately drinking a poison, or perform a healing.

This is just pentecostal nonsense.

I once recorded from a Rod Parsley show where he was supposed to be speaking in an unknown tongue & sent it off to a language professor. After sharing it with several other scholars, he replied, "There's no pattern of coherency in this speech, nothing that could be construed as words in any language, known or unknown. It's just random sounds, consistent with the imagination of an English speaker." among other things he said.

Besides, if it'd actually been an "unknown tongue", it was not in accordance with Paul's guidelines given to him by the HOLY SPIRIT, which say there must be an interpreter present, or otherwise, let the speaker hold his peace.

You can call it whatever you want. The only "goofy" is your lack of understanding those verses.
Mark 16:16-18…16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”

This does not contradict what utilyan posted of 1 Corinthians either. Personally I would not call anything of scripture goofy. I pick up snakes everyday and cast them aside with my Wisdom ,that the Lord has given me. It frees a lot of people. Obviously the snakes in Mark are not just physical snakes. I mean after all there are snake charmers and snake handlers who do that as a living and never get bit. The snakes I handle are demons doctrines, which people are buried under. Though I enter the pit, dens of inquity which are filled with evil doctrines, I never get bit There are many types of snake handlers.Each has various gifts, which is reinforced in 1 Corinthians that utilyan posted. So as I said the scriptures are not goofy, just your perception is. Nor do they contradict. Men contradict their meanings. This is why one must be guided by the Holy Spirit when pointing them out.

Also, if by some queer act of evil, I am thrown into a snake pit or have snakes PHYSICALLY thrown on me , I will be good. If someone tried to poison me , I will be good. And for sure I will never be poisoned by your doctrine.