Liberal Kirsten Powers Converted

[The Biblicist]

:jesus::godisgood::jesus::godisgood:

God is good and his grace is good. Stephen told his audiance they do "always resist" the Holy Ghost even as did their fathers because that is the depraved nature (Rom. 8:7). But the new heart God gives in regeneration does not resist, neither does God give an unbelieving heart but a believing heart. Of course the Arminians have no use for a "new" heart as they are perfectly fine with their "old" heart which is at war with God and is not subject to the law of God and NEITHER INDEED CAN BE."

I am thankful God gave me a NEW heart and a NEW inward man and a NEW birth - all being one and the same thing.

 

[DrJamesAch]

Yeah, we will let the Arminians just beat their heads against the anvil of God's Word. They hate the truth of God's word so intensely there is no reason to even engage some of them at all. Like throwing pearls before swine, they just turn and rend you.

We all know that when God seeks the sinner the sinner will seek the Savior. We all know that the scriptures teach "whosoever will" not "whosoever won't." We all know that no man comes to the Son by faith except the Father draws "him" and that "him" will be raised up because the Father gives only to the Son to give eternal life only those he draws.

There you go! THAT'S what I'm talking about.:thumbs::thumbs: A little more honesty and you will almost be out of the closet. Calvinists need to just come right out and say what they really believe: that you can't be saved unless you're a Calvinist, and that God doesn't love everybody.

Then once they are really honest about what they believe, they have to explain how us Non Cals are seeking God and love Him, when their theology says that no man can seek God.

 

[DrJamesAch]

God is good and his grace is good. Stephen told his audiance they do "always resist" the Holy Ghost even as did their fathers because that is the depraved nature (Rom. 8:7). But the new heart God gives in regeneration does not resist, neither does God give an unbelieving heart but a believing heart. Of course the Arminians have no use for a "new" heart as they are perfectly fine with their "old" heart which is at war with God and is not subject to the law of God and NEITHER INDEED CAN BE."

I am thankful God gave me a NEW heart and a NEW inward man and a NEW birth - all being one and the same thing.

So which comes first, the non resistance or the new heart? Calvinists will never get straight on their theology.

 

[The Biblicist]

:jesus::godisgood::jesus::godisgood:

The Arminians can't deal with the truth, so they pervert our words, put into our mouths words we never said, never will say and yet they convince themselves we believe such things.

A saved person is one who simply sees himself to be a sinner and sees Christ as the only hope and all sufficient One to save him by simple faith.

No, you do not have to enroll in the school of Calvinism to be saved or enroll in the school of Arminianism. But if anyone is saved it will not contradict the truth that we preach and teach but it will contradict the tenets of Arminians every single time.

So there are a lot of saved people who have been later been misled (Arminians) to embrace false teachings.

Now, watch them twist my words and deny what I said! I said you don't have to embrace Calvinism to be saved but you will never be saved apart from the truth we teach.

 

[DrJamesAch]

The Arminians can't deal with the truth, so they pervert our words, put into our mouths words we never said, never will say and yet they convince themselves we believe such things.

A saved person is one who simply sees himself to be a sinner and sees Christ as the only hope and all sufficient One to save him by simple faith.

No, you do not have to enroll in the school of Calvinism to be saved or enroll in the school of Arminianism. But if anyone is saved it will not contradict the truth that we preach and teach but it will contradict the tenets of Arminians every single time.

So there are a lot of saved people who have been later been misled (Arminians) to embrace false teachings.

And Calvinists can tell the difference between a premise and a conclusion:

PREMISE: God hath from eternity determined ALL THINGS whatsoever cometh to pass:

CONCLUSION: God is the author of sin

Calvinist: "I never said that [premise]"


And now you are equivocating again. You said IF you are saved, then you won't contradict the Bible. Contradicting the Bible would be disagreeing with Calvinism. Thus all who disagree with Calvinism are not saved. When you will Calvie's just be honest about your real convictions? If God causes you to "persevere" then why can't you Calvie's stop lying about what you really believe about Non Calvinists?

 

[The Biblicist]

So which comes first, the non resistance or the new heart? Calvinists will never get straight on their theology.

You have got to be kidding? Is this a serious question? The old heart/nature NEVER changes, never ceases to resist (Rom. 7:18). The new heart as empowered by the Holy Spirit dominates between the two and it NEVER resists, never succumbs to unbelief because it is created in "righteousness and true holiness" after the image of God (Col. 3:10).

 

[Tom Bryant]

You must read this article. If you ever watch Fox News you will find this woman on there as an analyst. I have watched her for years.

She testifies about how grace overcame her.


http://gospellightminute.wordpress....eism-to-christianity-gospel-light-minute-101/

That is all Calvinism is saying. We are saying that this is how it works.

And I'll tell you why folks like Willis and Amy are switching- every Christian KNOWS this is how it works.

We all KNOW that we didn't go looking for God and that if he had not absolutely apprehended us, we would never have come to Him.

In heaven, there is joy in the presence of angels over her salvation... while on earth the result is let's argue about Calvinism.

We live in a strange weird world.

 

[The Biblicist]

And Calvinists can tell the difference between a premise and a conclusion:

PREMISE: God hath from eternity determined ALL THINGS whatsoever cometh to pass:

CONCLUSION: God is the author of sin

Calvinist: "I never said that [premise]"


And now you are equivocating again. You said IF you are saved, then you won't contradict the Bible. Contradicting the Bible would be disagreeing with Calvinism. Thus all who disagree with Calvinism are not saved. When you will Calvie's just be honest about your real convictions? If God causes you to "persevere" then why can't you Calvie's stop lying about what you really believe about Non Calvinists?

You need to get out more and broaden your reading. I know this is an exercise of futility to even address people like you as you neither have the willingness to be objective or the capability to deal honestly with your opponents, but for the sake of others who are objective I will respond to this silly argument.

First, the premise is not that simplex as you present it. If it were, then your conclusions would be correct. Not all "calvinists" fit within your little box you try to force them into.

God's eternal purpose for sin is much more complex. God never ever delights or takes pleasure in sin but he does intentionally permit it and limits and overrules it (Psa. 76:10) to conform to His ultimate purpose by which he does actually work "ALL" things for the ultimate good of His people and His glory.

God is the author of sin POTENTIAL as He is the author of the ability that can be used to bring sin into existence. However, he is not the author of the ACT of sin which he has decreed and made to be the responsiblity of the ACTOR of sin.

 

[Inspector Javert]

..........................

 

[The Biblicist]

AAANNNNNDDDD!!!!! Right about here is where the possibility of any reasonable conversation utterly breaks down.

I simply gave my personal experience of Salvation that was similar to Christen's with no barbs toward anyone.

However, what followed were insane accusations against Calviists. Go look at the posts that preceded the post you quote from me. I guess your side can play by one set of rules while we must play by another set of rules.

Why not drop all the barbs and discuss valid points instead of make believe accusations and rediculous perversions of our position???? Just a question?

.

 

[Inspector Javert]

The old heart/nature NEVER changes, never ceases to resist (Rom. 7:18). The new heart as empowered by the Holy Spirit dominates

This is a direct and blatant contradiction. Did you even listen to yourself?
Don't the Scriptures teach that God "removes the heart of stone" and grants a NEW heart???? That's the favourite Calvie proof text anyway.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

You're not even quoting Calvinism correctly.....sheesh...

Why don't you figure out Calvinism first...and then come back and debate why Arminians don't know what their talking about :laugh:

 

[Inspector Javert]

Are you being fair? Are your reading the insane comments by the other side that are equally if not more inflammatory? Apparently not! It would be nice to have one fair objective discussion but before you point fingers you better look at those on your side of this equation as well.

O.K....and I'll edit out my previous comments...
They were not necessary or constructive.

 

[DrJamesAch]

You have got to be kidding? Is this a serious question? The old heart/nature NEVER changes, never ceases to resist (Rom. 7:18). The new heart as empowered by the Holy Spirit dominates between the two and it NEVER resists, never succumbs to unbelief because it is created in "righteousness and true holiness" after the image of God (Col. 3:10).

Then what is the old nature really resisting? If the new nature is not actually fighting the old nature, then the old nature is not actually ever resisting anything at all, and yet you say it is ALWAYS resisting. Yet it is that same old nature that was resisting the Holy Ghost in Acts 7:51. If the Holy Spirit totally bypassed that, then those in Acts 7 couldn't rightfully said to have been truly resisting anything.

And yes, that is a logical question, which came first, the non resistance or the the new heart because you can't not resist until you have the new heart, but you can't have the new heart until your resistance is broken. A fatal flaw in Calvinist logic.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Well according to Calvies no unsaved person can seek God.

Paul was a Calvinist? Rom 3:11 is in my translation.

 

[The Biblicist]

This is a direct and blatant contradiction. Did you even listen to yourself?
Don't the Scriptures teach that God "removes the heart of stone" and grants a NEW heart???? That's the favourite Calvie proof text anyway.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

You're not even quoting Calvinism correctly.....sheesh...

Why don't you figure out Calvinism first...and then come back and debate why Arminians don't know what their talking about :laugh:

Ok, your question is logical and a good question. Let me attempt to answer it in a fair and objective manner and follow my reasoning carefully.

I believe that the fallen nature is not eradicated from my person by regeneration based upon volumous sciptures that clearly state both by inference and explicitly that the "old" man must be put off and the law of sin still indwells us (Rom. 7:18-25; Gal. 5:16) and the repeated need to walk in the Spirit. There is still an internal war going on.

Hence, the same old nature still exists but in a different POSITION within me. It has been REMOVED from its position of TOTAL DOMINIANCE in regard to my ruling inclination. The new birth has changed my ruling inclination to be toward righteousness. However, this inclination to righteousness has no inherent power in and of itself to carry out those inclinations as clearly stated in Romans 7:18 and Gal. 5:16. Hence, the old heart is removed as the dominant inclination. The "old' man is still very much alive and existent and has not changed at all except in its position of absolute dominance. The new heart is in the dominante position in regard to INCLINATION. Rom. 7:18 spells this new dominant inclination WITHOUT POWER that now exists within the regenerated man. The power to enforce that DOMINANT INCLINATION to righteousness resides not in our will but in the Person of the Holy Spirit whereby we can mortify the old flesh.

 

[DrJamesAch]

You need to get out more and broaden your reading. I know this is an exercise of futility to even address people like you as you neither have the willingness to be objective or the capability to deal honestly with your opponents, but for the sake of others who are objective I will respond to this silly argument.

First, the premise is not that simplex as you present it. If it were, then your conclusions would be correct. Not all "calvinists" fit within your little box you try to force them into.

God's eternal purpose for sin is much more complex. God never ever delights or takes pleasure in sin but he does intentionally permit it and limits and overrules it (Psa. 76:10) to conform to His ultimate purpose by which he does actually work "ALL" things for the ultimate good of His people and His glory.

God is the author of sin POTENTIAL as He is the author of the ability that can be used to bring sin into existence. However, he is not the author of the ACT of sin which he has decreed and made to be the responsiblity of the ACTOR of sin.

Coming from you that's funny that I should read more when you claimed to have lead the revolt against Calvinism in college having never read Calvin by your own admission. I, however HAVE read Calvin-and Gill, and Jones, Edwards, Whitefield, Kennedy, Sproul, Pink, Piper, MacArthur, Boettner, et al.. I was a Calvinist long before I was a Baptist after leaving Judaism. So I'd say I am distinctly more read on Calvinism, and have forgotten more about Calvinism than you will ever learn.

And show me scripture and verse that shows God is POTENTIALLY the author of sin. If that's true then He is POTENTIALLY the creator of libertarian free will and now you're back at square on scratching your head saying "how did I get here?".

How can God create the POTENTIAL to sin, with no guarantee that sin will ACTUALLY HAPPEN in order for Him to exercise His sovereignty over those He has predetermined for damnation? If God only POTENTIALLY authored sin, then He hung is own determination to chance, but yet if He determines ALL THINGS, and cause the will of the sinner to do what it can not do otherwise, which as a result, guarantees that the sinner WILL sin, then ultimately, God is STILL the author of sin.

I know that may be a little deep for you but think about it for a while.

 

[DrJamesAch]

Paul was a Calvinist? Rom 3:11 is in my translation.

Paul never murdered anyone after he got saved, nor sprinkled babies, nor believed that the Holy Spirit was "spiritually present" in the sacrements, and Paul was premillennial. Not very much in common with Calvin.

 

[webdog]

Yeah, we will let the Arminians just beat their heads against the anvil of God's Word. They hate the truth of God's word so intensely there is no reason to even engage some of them at all. Like throwing pearls before swine, they just turn and rend you.

We all know that when God seeks the sinner the sinner will seek the Savior. We all know that the scriptures teach "whosoever will" not "whosoever won't." We all know that no man comes to the Son by faith except the Father draws "him" and that "him" will be raised up because the Father gives only to the Son to give eternal life only those he draws.

Question beg much?

Notice how the arrogant calvinist casts all non Cal's amongst the swine of the lost.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Ok, your question is logical and a good question. Let me attempt to answer it in a fair and objective manner and follow my reasoning carefully.

I believe that the fallen nature is not eradicated from my person by regeneration based upon volumous sciptures that clearly state both by inference and explicitly that the "old" man must be put off and the law of sin still indwells us (Rom. 7:18-25; Gal. 5:16) and the repeated need to walk in the Spirit. There is still an internal war going on.

Hence, the same old nature still exists but in a different POSITION within me. It has been REMOVED from its position of TOTAL DOMINIANCE in regard to my ruling inclination. The new birth has changed my ruling inclination to be toward righteousness. However, this inclination to righteousness has no inherent power in and of itself to carry out those inclinations as clearly stated in Romans 7:18 and Gal. 5:16. Hence, the old heart is removed as the dominant inclination. The "old' man is still very much alive and existent and has not changed at all except in its position of absolute dominance. The new heart is in the dominante position in regard to INCLINATION. Rom. 7:18 spells this new dominant inclination WITHOUT POWER that now exists within the regenerated man. The power to enforce that DOMINANT INCLINATION to righteousness resides not in our will but in the Person of the Holy Spirit whereby we can mortify the old flesh.

Quite well put!! :wavey:
I would also agree with you completely here.....Nice Post sir. :godisgood:

 

[The Biblicist]

Then what is the old nature really resisting?

It is resisting all external influences of God. It is resisting assaults of God's Word upon the mind. It is resisting the witness of Christians. It is resisting the truth.

If the new nature is not actually fighting the old nature, then the old nature is not actually ever resisting anything at all,

You are confusing resistance to external influences of God with internal influenes of God. Prior to regeneration there is NOTHING within man's nature compatible with God and so the resistance is to EXTERNAL influences of God. In the New birth God now places an INTERNAL nature compatible with God that the old nature now resists INTERNALLY. The placement of this NEW nature within man is not due to the lack of resistance by the old nature but due to the power of God. Regeneration is the creation of a new believing nature that is empowered by the Holy Spirit manifested by repentance and faith in the gospel. There is no chronological order any more than between the bullet and a hole as it is a simeltaneous action but there is a logical order of cause and effect - spirutal life precedes spiritual actions.