Liberal or not?

[alexander284]

In the SBC church I'm a member of, the Pastor's wife (who is a professor at the most prominent private Christian college) often fills in, when the need arises, in our adult Sunday School classes.

 

[SavedByGrace]

In the SBC church I'm a member of, the Pastor's wife (who is a professor at the most prominent private Christian college) often fills in, when the need arises, in our adult Sunday School classes.

are there adult men present at these classes?

 

[alexander284]

are there adult men present at these classes?

Yes, quite often, there are men present at these classes.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, quite often, there are men present at these classes.

don't you think that this is against what the Bible teaches, and should any Bible-believing Christian attend such "churches"?

1 Timothy 2

11 A woman is to learn quietly with full submission. 12 I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

absolute RUBBISH!

Ok. How so?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Ok. How so?

See #39

 

[Reynolds]

no such thing found in scripture

YeS there is. Read the link I provided. You will either have to group deacons into classes or you will have to start ordaining women deacons. You can't have scripture both ways.

 

[Reynolds]

The Bible says that women cannot preach or teach in a Church, which is the role of the Pastor, so they cannot be Pastors.

Where does it say that they cannot pray in Church, or read from the Bible in front of the Church, or distributing communion elements? NOWHERE! These are traditions that are MAN-MADE!

Paul plainly says they can not exercise authority over a man. Dispersing the elements contains authority.

 

[Reynolds]

In the SBC church I'm a member of, the Pastor's wife (who is a professor at the most prominent private Christian college) often fills in, when the need arises, in our adult Sunday School classes.

Criswells wife taught men's Sunday School too. Still does not make it right.

 

[Reformed1689]

LOL, you are making a distinction that the Bible doesn't make.
Paul so trusted and loved Phoebe that he entrusted her to deliver his letter to the believers in Rome. Not to any of the men he knew...but to a trusted woman.
Low deacon rather than administrative deacon. How silly you are.

Phoebe was not in the office of Deacon. Deacons (Office) can only be men per Paul's writing.

 

[Reformed1689]

Do you think it is proper?

No

 

[Reformed1689]

The ONLY example, unless I am missing one, that we have of the distribution of elements was from Christ, the Shepherd. So the only example we have is a man giving the elements. Specifically, the leader. Now obviously Christ said that we are to continue to do this in remembrance so it is something that would continue, and it obviously would not be him giving the elements each time.

 

[Marooncat79]

Do women pour the wine/juice into the cups?

 

[George Antonios]

I tend to agree with what Christ Jesus in Gal 3:28 "...there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus". I think to much is made of this no women in this or that position since. That, to me, seems to be more of a tradition thing than a biblical thing.

Paul's words are evidently a reference to the spiritual nature. In Christ, spiritually, there is neither male nor female. That has no bearing on physical gender roles. Otherwise, let's jump on the gender-identity bandwagon. Why should the Christian husband of a Christian wife be the head of the home if there is no distinction in Christ?
The same Paul forbad women from speaking in churches, as also saith the law.

Failure to rightly divide (2Ti.2:15) between spiritual and physical is the reason Paul's words are wrested to justify the anti-Pauline position of women leaders.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do women pour the wine/juice into the cups?

NEVER they should NOT!

 

[George Antonios]

Phoebe was a deacon. There is no regulative principle to not have women serving communion.

Phebe was a servant: Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

But of course, the great Greek scholars that haunt the forum are more qualified than the KJB translators who in this case rendered διάκονος as "servant", which is literally the meaning of διάκονος.

OED: "literally 'servant', from dia- here perhaps 'thoroughly, from all sides', + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- 'to hasten, set oneself in motion.'

Making Phebe out to be a deacon, in the 1Timothy 3 sense of positional authority, is akin to claiming that a "minister" must always mean "a political ruler" since the term "minister" is often applied to political rulers. But clearly, there is a quasi-opposite difference between a "minister" who is a servant and a "minister" who is a ruler. Likewise, Phebe was deacon in the sense of "servant" not a deacon in the sense of an elder/ruler. The KJB translators, understanding that distinction, and not being subject to 21st century Wokeism, here translated διάκονος literally and correctly as servant.
Of course, the brethren who suffer from anti-KJBitis Syndrome at this point get the shakes, and must now adopt the position that Phebe was indeed a deacon because the KJB must always be proven wrong; for 'tis a matter of intellectual superiority, of course.

Paul essentially explains how Phebe had been a servant of the church in the next verse: she hath been a succourer of many (v.2). As such, she clearly had the gift of helps:
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

My, how the Bible itself elucidates things.

And it's hard for Phebe to be a deaconess while also the husband of one wife (Titus 1:6).
Unless the same transgender spirit that afflicts the West also afflicts one's theology.
Maybe Phebe identified as a man...

 

[Reynolds]

Phoebe was not in the office of Deacon. Deacons (Office) can only be men per Paul's writing.

Yes. She was a general servant.

 

[Marooncat79]

How do we know?

 

[Reynolds]

How do we know?

Paul prohibited in all the churches women being deacons.

 

[AustinC]

Phebe was a servant: Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

But of course, the great Greek scholars that haunt the forum are more qualified than the KJB translators who in this case rendered διάκονος as "servant", which is literally the meaning of διάκονος.

OED: "literally 'servant', from dia- here perhaps 'thoroughly, from all sides', + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- 'to hasten, set oneself in motion.'

Making Phebe out to be a deacon, in the 1Timothy 3 sense of positional authority, is akin to claiming that a "minister" must always mean "a political ruler" since the term "minister" is often applied to political rulers. But clearly, there is a quasi-opposite difference between a "minister" who is a servant and a "minister" who is a ruler. Likewise, Phebe was deacon in the sense of "servant" not a deacon in the sense of an elder/ruler. The KJB translators, understanding that distinction, and not being subject to 21st century Wokeism, here translated διάκονος literally and correctly as servant.
Of course, the brethren who suffer from anti-KJBitis Syndrome at this point get the shakes, and must now adopt the position that Phebe was indeed a deacon because the KJB must always be proven wrong; for 'tis a matter of intellectual superiority, of course.

Paul essentially explains how Phebe had been a servant of the church in the next verse: she hath been a succourer of many (v.2). As such, she clearly had the gift of helps:
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

My, how the Bible itself elucidates things.

And it's hard for Phebe to be a deaconess while also the husband of one wife (Titus 1:6).
Unless the same transgender spirit that afflicts the West also afflicts one's theology.
Maybe Phebe identified as a man...

In your church, would you deny a single man the office of deacon? If you deny Phoebe as a deaconness, then pure legalism must deny any man who is not married and does not have children who others can observe as obedient from being a deacon.
Second, no one has yet shown a regulative principle that says women cannot serve communion.