1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Liberal or not?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Reynolds, Apr 17, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. alexander284

    alexander284 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,510
    Likes Received:
    338
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In the SBC church I'm a member of, the Pastor's wife (who is a professor at the most prominent private Christian college) often fills in, when the need arises, in our adult Sunday School classes.
     
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    are there adult men present at these classes?
     
  3. alexander284

    alexander284 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,510
    Likes Received:
    338
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, quite often, there are men present at these classes.
     
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    don't you think that this is against what the Bible teaches, and should any Bible-believing Christian attend such "churches"?

    1 Timothy 2

    11 A woman is to learn quietly with full submission. 12 I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
     
  5. 5 point Gillinist

    5 point Gillinist Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2022
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    130
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ok. How so?
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    See #39
     
  7. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    YeS there is. Read the link I provided. You will either have to group deacons into classes or you will have to start ordaining women deacons. You can't have scripture both ways.
     
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul plainly says they can not exercise authority over a man. Dispersing the elements contains authority.
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Criswells wife taught men's Sunday School too. Still does not make it right.
     
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Phoebe was not in the office of Deacon. Deacons (Office) can only be men per Paul's writing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,905
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The ONLY example, unless I am missing one, that we have of the distribution of elements was from Christ, the Shepherd. So the only example we have is a man giving the elements. Specifically, the leader. Now obviously Christ said that we are to continue to do this in remembrance so it is something that would continue, and it obviously would not be him giving the elements each time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    642
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do women pour the wine/juice into the cups?
     
  14. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul's words are evidently a reference to the spiritual nature. In Christ, spiritually, there is neither male nor female. That has no bearing on physical gender roles. Otherwise, let's jump on the gender-identity bandwagon. Why should the Christian husband of a Christian wife be the head of the home if there is no distinction in Christ?
    The same Paul forbad women from speaking in churches, as also saith the law.

    Failure to rightly divide (2Ti.2:15) between spiritual and physical is the reason Paul's words are wrested to justify the anti-Pauline position of women leaders.
     
    #54 George Antonios, Apr 18, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    NEVER they should NOT! ;)
     
  16. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Phebe was a servant: Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

    But of course, the great Greek scholars that haunt the forum are more qualified than the KJB translators who in this case rendered διάκονος as "servant", which is literally the meaning of διάκονος.

    OED: "literally 'servant', from dia- here perhaps 'thoroughly, from all sides', + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- 'to hasten, set oneself in motion.'

    Making Phebe out to be a deacon, in the 1Timothy 3 sense of positional authority, is akin to claiming that a "minister" must always mean "a political ruler" since the term "minister" is often applied to political rulers. But clearly, there is a quasi-opposite difference between a "minister" who is a servant and a "minister" who is a ruler. Likewise, Phebe was deacon in the sense of "servant" not a deacon in the sense of an elder/ruler. The KJB translators, understanding that distinction, and not being subject to 21st century Wokeism, here translated διάκονος literally and correctly as servant.
    Of course, the brethren who suffer from anti-KJBitis Syndrome at this point get the shakes, and must now adopt the position that Phebe was indeed a deacon because the KJB must always be proven wrong; for 'tis a matter of intellectual superiority, of course.

    Paul essentially explains how Phebe had been a servant of the church in the next verse: she hath been a succourer of many (v.2). As such, she clearly had the gift of helps:
    1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    My, how the Bible itself elucidates things.

    And it's hard for Phebe to be a deaconess while also the husband of one wife (Titus 1:6).
    Unless the same transgender spirit that afflicts the West also afflicts one's theology.
    Maybe Phebe identified as a man...
     
    #56 George Antonios, Apr 18, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. She was a general servant.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    642
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How do we know?
     
  19. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,894
    Likes Received:
    2,498
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul prohibited in all the churches women being deacons.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In your church, would you deny a single man the office of deacon? If you deny Phoebe as a deaconness, then pure legalism must deny any man who is not married and does not have children who others can observe as obedient from being a deacon.
    Second, no one has yet shown a regulative principle that says women cannot serve communion.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...