Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary

[Siberian]

I recall him being vocal about Calvinism - just not the Calvinist. He was not attacking the character or the person, but the doctrine that he believed flawed. That was what I recall. I have not heard the sermon.

His anti-Calvinism stance had nothing to do with his downfall. Caner simply capitalized on a post 9.11 culture with chronic lying. He went from being Michael to Ergun, rewrote his history, faked fluency in languages (and even faked accents many times). He profited greatly from his lies. He had all the marks of a charlatan and people finally called him on it.

There are plenty of teachers/pastors just as vocally anti-cal as Caner, but who are above reproach in their character... I have problems with Caner's anemic theology, but far greater issues with his public sin and lack of repentance.

 

[Revmitchell]

His anti-Calvinism has everything to do with the veracity with which Calvinists have gone after him and refuse to let it all go. It has to do with the level of concern they have over anything he may have done when anyone else would not have been payed attention too. Calvinists were looking for something to destroy him with and found it then exaggerated the whole thing in order to destroy him. The spirit in which people have gone after him is as bad or worse than anything Caner may have done. I have never seen more unChristian behavior out of the Christian community. Ever.

 

[JonC]

His anti-Calvinism has everything to do with the veracity with which Calvinists have gone after him and refuse to let it all go. It has to do with the level of concern they have over anything he may have done when anyone else would not have been payed attention too. Calvinists were looking for something to destroy him with and found it then exaggerated the whole thing in order to destroy him. The spirit in which people have gone after him is as bad or worse than anything Caner may have done. I have never seen more unChristian behavior out of the Christian community. Ever.

:thumbsup:

 

[Siberian]

His anti-Calvinism has everything to do with the veracity with which Calvinists have gone after him and refuse to let it all go. It has to do with the level of concern they have over anything he may have done when anyone else would not have been payed attention too. Calvinists were looking for something to destroy him with and found it then exaggerated the whole thing in order to destroy him. The spirit in which people have gone after him is as bad or worse than anything Caner may have done. I have never seen more unChristian behavior out of the Christian community. Ever.

Your theory on this would be far more credible if the accusations (and verifiable proof of them) were far less serious.

 

[JonC]

Credible proof of a portion of his theory (the last portion) can be found in this thread. The topic isn’t about Caner, but instead about who may replace Dr. Elmer Towns at the seminary.

 

[Havensdad]

His anti-Calvinism has everything to do with the veracity with which Calvinists have gone after him and refuse to let it all go. It has to do with the level of concern they have over anything he may have done when anyone else would not have been payed attention too. Calvinists were looking for something to destroy him with and found it then exaggerated the whole thing in order to destroy him. The spirit in which people have gone after him is as bad or worse than anything Caner may have done. I have never seen more unChristian behavior out of the Christian community. Ever.

No, it does not. Caner was rabidly anti-Calvinist (not just anti-calvinism), LONG before any of the controversy. I still have some of my Seminary lectures from him, sitting on my shelf, and he was just brutal, not just with the doctrine of Calvinism, but with anyone who claimed to be Calvinist.

And this comes from one who was on Caner's side at first (not that I was anti-Calvinist, but I generally liked Dr. Caner, despite his temperament, and felt he was being ill treated). Then I looked into the it, and saw some of the most horrific things...blatant lies, and times where he claimed to be speaking Arabic, behind the pulpit, and was in fact speaking gibberish....

The fact that he still refuses to repent, and is still being hired as a speaker, is the REASON why both calvinists, AND non-calvinists will not let it go (there are enormous numbers of Arminians, that have also excoriated Caner...there was a petition going around before Liberty fired him, to have him fired, and it was not a bunch of Calvinists on the list!).

The idea that you should just "let it go" is saddening...

 

[JonC]

The idea that you should just "let it go" is saddening...

This occurred several years ago and Caner was relieved of his position at the seminary. Although he admitted no wrong, he was “disciplined” and judged by the “Church at large.” He has obviously hurt you in some deep way for you to harbor such resentment. As a pastor, perhaps you should try to reach out to him. Explain that the Church demands repentance. Then you have done your part – let it go and function as a pastor of your church.

 

[Havensdad]

This occurred several years ago and Caner was relieved of his position at the seminary. Although he admitted no wrong, he was “disciplined” and judged by the “Church at large.” He has obviously hurt you in some deep way for you to harbor such resentment. As a pastor, perhaps you should try to reach out to him. Explain that the Church demands repentance. Then you have done your part – let it go and function as a pastor of your church.

Not at all. He has not done anything to me. He is engaging in an attack against the body of Christ, every day he engages in "ministry." That is my only problem with him.

And I disagree. We are commanded by scripture to warn others, and to openly rebuke false teachers. So, until he repents, we are commanded by scripture to continually warn others about him, to point out his lies, and to call him to repentance.

 

[preachinjesus]

Credible proof of a portion of his theory (the last portion) can be found in this thread. The topic isn’t about Caner, but instead about who may replace Dr. Elmer Towns at the seminary.

And it is a good question to ask. I just don't have a good feel for the short list given the conditions of the seminary.

 

[JonC]

And it is a good question to ask. I just don't have a good feel for the short list given the conditions of the seminary.

It's going to be interesting.

 

[Rippon]

Ergun Caner was disciplined and judged by the church at large? I don't think so.

Discipline is at the local church level and therte was no such discipline enacted against him unless he left and willfully would not submit to the authority of said local church.

He still walks in disobedience and Emir is no better.

 

[JonC]

Ergun Caner was disciplined and judged by the church at large? I don't think so.

Discipline is at the local church level and therte was no such discipline enacted against him unless he left and willfully would not submit to the authority of said local church.

He still walks in disobedience and Emir is no better.

Havensdad commented that

...the Church at large is NOT handling this in the proper manner. He should be disciplined, and removed from the community, until such time as he repents....

I agree with you about discipline being at the local church – that was the reason for my reply (the only disciplining body outside of the local church, for Caner, would be the seminary – I don’t know Caners relationship to his church and, quite frankly, that is not by concern.

If his local church does not find fault with him, then is it a matter for other churches to take up? If they do find fault, it is a matter they are to take beyond the local church or is discipline their responsibility? If he walks in disobedience to that church, and still functions as a member - should other churches force that church to expel him? This is starting to sound like Howell and Graves over church discipline, just a century and a half later.

 

[Revmitchell]

And yet it is only Calvinists who are worried if Caner gets the "proper discipline". Hmmm, I wonder why?

Every time a calvinists makes another post wanting this so called proper discipline they prove my point.

The point being if you have the nerve to oppose calvinism then there will be many calvinists who want to destroy you. The sorry attitude that James White exudes certainly gets passed on to his followers.

 

[mjohnson7]

Revmitchell, so do you think I am a Calvinist because I am disgusted by Caner's lies, unrepentant spirit, and damage to Liberty as well as other Christian leaders who defended him early on? These things make me a Calvinist?? Really?

It sounds like you are the one with a bitter spirit towards our Calvinistic brothers and a very obvious axe to grind. Why??

Did some Calvinist break a tie vote an association meeting that you disagreed with. Did some sporty Calvinist beat you in a three legged race. Do you look bad in skinny jeans and believe like Ed Young, Jr that all Calvinists wear skinny jeans.... Is this why you're so bitter??

Do you believe Calvinists are conspiring with Freemasons to take over the world and usher in the NWO?? Are Calvinists the reason we have complete moron in the highest elected office in our country??

It sounds to me like you're so petty & immature that everything wrong in the world is caused by a Calvinist!! Grow up and go study!!

And no.... I'm not a "Calvinist"..... Hmmm... What has happened to your argument?? Oh that's right, it fell apart because it's baseless and your assertions are completely ignorant.

 

[InTheLight]

Hmmm... What has happened to your argument?? Oh that's right, it fell apart because it's baseless and your assertions are completely ignorant.

Don't be so hasty. Anyone with a history of following BB can see in this thread that it is the Calvinists that are calling for discipline to be meted out.

 

[Revmitchell]

Revmitchell, so do you think I am a Calvinist because I am disgusted by Caner's lies, unrepentant spirit, and damage to Liberty as well as other Christian leaders who defended him early on? These things make me a Calvinist?? Really?

It sounds like you are the one with a bitter spirit towards our Calvinistic brothers and a very obvious axe to grind. Why??

Did some Calvinist break a tie vote an association meeting that you disagreed with. Did some sporty Calvinist beat you in a three legged race. Do you look bad in skinny jeans and believe like Ed Young, Jr that all Calvinists wear skinny jeans.... Is this why you're so bitter??

Do you believe Calvinists are conspiring with Freemasons to take over the world and usher in the NWO?? Are Calvinists the reason we have complete moron in the highest elected office in our country??

It sounds to me like you're so petty & immature that everything wrong in the world is caused by a Calvinist!! Grow up and go study!!

And no.... I'm not a "Calvinist"..... Hmmm... What has happened to your argument?? Oh that's right, it fell apart because it's baseless and your assertions are completely ignorant.

You have 170 posts. As a johnny come lately you would think that you would be more cautious about what you think you know.

 

[Jerome]

Revmitchell, so do you think I am a Calvinist [yada yada yada] And no.... I'm not a "Calvinist"..... Hmmm... What has happened to your argument?? Oh that's right, it fell apart because it's baseless and your assertions are completely ignorant.

A few months ago:

As a Reformed/Calvinistic Baptist.....Again....full disclosure....I would be considered a Calvinist, though I prefer the moniker "Reformed" better.

 

[preachinjesus]

Maybe, in a hope to put this Caner business to bed, it is helpful for someone, like me, who isn't Reformed or a Calvinist to note that Caner's criticisms of the theology are not good.

If I were Reformed or a Calvinist, I would welcome the criticisms, or at least attempts of criticism, by guys like Caner because they are so poor anyone can see through them.

So, what do we think of the situation confronting the seminary?

 

[JonC]

I think the seminary is at a crossroad. It boasts the largest online format, but standards are suffering – personally I think it is spreading itself too thin, maybe trying to capture too large of an audience. Dr. Town’s replacement could steer the seminary in either direction. I have no idea who they’d look at.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think Caner was rather pompous and full of himself. But the way he has been treated is a prime example of how we eat our own and ungodly.