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lies, evil and chaos.
- Thread starter 37818
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37818
Well-Known Member
Yes, in that those cows were not good cows. The fact that "well" good looking cows can be made to look bad and be not good cows illustrates the Hebrew word for "evil" is the meaning of harm of some good. In this case "well" favored cows can be not good, as the Hebrew word for "evil" in case is translated "ill" cows.
37818
Well-Known Member
The Hebrew word for "evil" has the meaing of what is contrary to what would be a "good," Evil is defined by the hurt of some kind of good. The point of argument here, is the "problem of evil" is really the problem of some kind of good being harmed in some way.
I believe your contrast should be between God and Lucifer.
Jhn 8:44 KJV - Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1Ti 4:1 KJV - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 KJV - Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 KJV - Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
37818
Well-Known Member
Ok. You seem to be failing to understand the fundamentals in being, Truth, Good and Order. The so called problem of evil, is really a problem of finite good being harmed in some way. God is the fundamental basis of all truth, good and order.
The fallen angle who from the Latin for the Hebrew is being called Lucifer. He is a created being. And all created things are finiie and temporal entities. And only God is infinite good and cannot lie, be evil and is the fundamental basis of all that exists. All the other unfallen angels abide in God's infinite goodness - so are kept sinless. And God in the New Heaven and Earth will then keep all things holy by the power of His infinite goodness. The eternal fire was created for those that will not abide in God. And for eternity all that are lost will be kept only in God's, the Lamb and His holy angels presence (Revelation 14:10; Matthew 25:41).
I believe God is sovereign over His creation, therefore He either causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. Using this definition, without God allowing evil, evil would not exist, thus God becomes the indirect cause of evil.
And secondly, if something is adverse to us, we may call it evil, like thinking of a tornado that destroys our house as an "evil" wind. God created our sometimes harsh environment, and those affected may see it as evil.
delizzle
Active Member
Here is an excerpt from a paper I wrote about the topic while in seminary.
"If God is omnibenevolent, evil cannot be within Him, nor can it be emanated or created by Him. As the supremely sovereign creator, what then is "evil"? The skeptic will argue that if God is the creator of everything in existence and all things were created through Him (Gen. 1:1; John 1:3; Col. 1:16; Rev. 4:11) and evil is something that exists, God must have created evil too. After all, it is written, “…I am the LORD, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things” (Isa. 45:6-7). It seems as though that scripture confirms the skeptic’s claim. Furthermore, denying either God or evil leads to dualism or pantheism.
Thomas Aquinas responds the Summa Theologica, on question XLVIII. Aquinas proposes that "evil" is not a substance but absence or corruption of substance. More specifically, Aquinas states that "evil is signified as the absence of good." It is not enough to say that evil is merely an "absence." Instead, it is a privation or absence of something that should be present. This definition by no means implies that evil does not exist, or we fall into a pantheistic conclusion. Rather, as Norman Geisler explains, "Evil is a real lack, privation, or corruption of a good thing. That is, evil does not exist in itself: evil exists only in a thing or substance – and all things God made are good" (Geisler 2011, 18). Therefore, God is the creator of everything in existence. However, since evil is not a thing but a privation of good, God did not create evil. Instead, good must exist to make evil possible.
Furthermore, by comparing evil to moth holes, Geisler concludes that nothing can be entirely evil. Moth holes can corrupt a sweater, but a wholly moth-eater garment is just a hangar in the closet (Geisler 2011, 19). Satan, who by his nature, is utterly evil in a moral sense (John 8:44) is still good in a metaphysical sense because Lucifer was an angel of God. Morally, it is possible for a mere human to be utterly depraved, yet metaphysically still be good in that they are still image bearers of God."
Man has little to fear of what men do in the name of evil, but God help us from what men do in the name of good.
Some of our beliefs are true, some of our beliefs miss the mark. Our lives are a search for truth, and a life well lived worships Truth. Truth is what has fidelity to the original, Jesus provided the perfect image of God, thus He is Truth.
Some of our beliefs are true, some of our beliefs miss the mark. Our lives are a search for truth, and a life well lived worships Truth. Truth is what has fidelity to the original, Jesus provided the perfect image of God, thus He is Truth.
37818
Well-Known Member
"All good" is not the same things as "infinite good." All good excludes evil in any way. Where as infinite good cannot be affected by evil. Infinite good cannot be caused to be evil. The fact that there is evil rules out an all good God. But does not rule out that God is infinite good and evil does exist. God is the uncaused existence, infinite and omnipresent in which anything that exists must exist "in."
And the infinite good God is better than any kind of all good God [which does not exist].
Evil needs good that can be hurt to exist. Only God is infinite good which cannot be hurt. All created good is finite. Only finite good can be hurt by evil. Infinite good is not the created good.
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Just_Ahead
Active Member
Desire for chaos increases each day. What would the history of global order and chaos reveal?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I have no problem relying on the "KJV", as I am very familiar with Late Middle English and most of its nuances, and being "misled" is something I got over a long time ago.
However, if you, the reader are not familiar with it, I think it's worth getting familiar with... especially if you love the word of God.
In addition, just because some of the English-speaking world ( read: Americans ) took the language in another direction ( some of it generalized for lack of patience, some of it being overpopulated with "slang" and other colloquial terms, with "street language" now taking over for much of the past 40 years or so ) is not sufficient grounds to dismiss the AV as "unreadable".
It isn't.
As I've said before, I understand it just fine.
But there is a learning curve to it.
I think that what it really boils down to, is that the AV has a stigma attached to it...sort of like driving an out-of-style car or wearing out-of-style clothes.
It still works, and it still does the job it was designed to do...educate the children of God about Him and His ways.
Most people frown on it, even though it's the same, reliable and trustworthy Bible that it ever was.
The only thing that changed was its audience.
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Just_Ahead
Active Member
Sunday night.
I want to write a personal thank you to Dave Gilbert for the post preceding. There is a lot of spiritual depth in the KJV. I have learned that it takes time to soak into our bombarded souls -- bombarded by sports, politics, busyness of families, and just stuff.
Thank you for the reminder.
*****
I just prayed with a friend on the telephone with a good friend undergoing cancer treatments.
Lord, thank you for your faithfulness. Amen.
I want to write a personal thank you to Dave Gilbert for the post preceding. There is a lot of spiritual depth in the KJV. I have learned that it takes time to soak into our bombarded souls -- bombarded by sports, politics, busyness of families, and just stuff.
Thank you for the reminder.
*****
I just prayed with a friend on the telephone with a good friend undergoing cancer treatments.
Lord, thank you for your faithfulness. Amen.
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
We have a contest on another site where someone posts a word or phrase from the KJV and people try to guess the meaning without looking it up ... like "my reins shall rejoice" (Pro. 23:16) ... what is the meaning of "reins"?As I've said before, I understand it just fine.
But there is a learning curve to it.
I think that what it really boils down to, is that the AV has a stigma attached to it...sort of like driving an out-of-style car or wearing out-of-style clothes.
It still works, and it still does the job it was designed to do...educate the children of God about Him and His ways.
Most people frown on it, even though it's the same, reliable and trustworthy Bible that it ever was.
The only thing that changed was its audience.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'll give you a hint:
" Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins." ( Psalms 7:9 )
It's the thing that many people think controls man's destiny...
"Free ______" .
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Just_Ahead
Active Member
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Guess that Idiom (KJV)
[Be forewarned, it is a REFORMED site ... so don't be surprised if you visit.]
The KJVO myth has no Scriptural support at all, not even in the KJV itself. That fact alone makes it false.
And the KJV is outdated. Just as the Model T was made for the dirt roads & wagon trails prevalent in 1908, the KJV was made for the British of its day who used Jacobean-Elizabethan English.
Just as man replaced the Model T with cars made for paved roads, God has caused updated English translations of His word to be made, in the English of now.
People don't hafta learn that archaic, obsolete English style to read God's word. He's made it available in OUR English, same as He has in many other current languages & dialects.
And the KJV is outdated. Just as the Model T was made for the dirt roads & wagon trails prevalent in 1908, the KJV was made for the British of its day who used Jacobean-Elizabethan English.
Just as man replaced the Model T with cars made for paved roads, God has caused updated English translations of His word to be made, in the English of now.
People don't hafta learn that archaic, obsolete English style to read God's word. He's made it available in OUR English, same as He has in many other current languages & dialects.