Life and breath

[post-it]

Originally posted by Chrysoprasus:
....still waiting on Post-it to give proof of when God gives someone their spirit..

Gina

One of these two verses is correct. Guess which one.

KJV
Job 27:3
Upon conception is the spirit of God given, before breath is taken or nostrils breathe.

Job 27:3
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

 

[Gina B]

The spirit of God...referring back to God giving breath..NOT a soul.
Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Life and breath appear to be seperate here.
Gina

 

[tyndale1946]

I feel that life and breath are simultaneously. If it is growing it is alive and a life and if it should die the soul goes back to God who gave it. It has all the makings of being a human being... All the genetic makeup... Why didn't it come to full term besides an abortion... Only God knows because it belongs to him. I expect to see them all in heaven in their full bodily form... Because he loves them with the same love that he loves us!... Brother Glen

[ September 20, 2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Chrysoprasus:
The spirit of God...referring back to God giving breath..NOT a soul.
Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Life and breath appear to be seperate here.
Gina

If you will read the verse more closely, you will see that they are one and the same. If anything, this verse further proves that they are combined as one Item. There is a list of two items here, one is all things we need, and the other is life and breath (as one). It really sinks it in, that life and breath are tied together.

[ September 20, 2002, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[Alex]

Post it:

On one of the other threads you agreeded that there was LIFE from conception but it wasn't HUMAN until it could breathe. Since this LIFE, if all goes ok, will eventually become a human in your terms with breathing, just what do you call this "life form" before becoming a human by your standards? A living piece of what?

God Bless............Alex

 

[Gina B]

Post-it, STOP! WRONG WAY! Turn around, walk TOWARD the light!
PROV 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

PROV 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

PROV 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

PROV 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

I sincerely hope you get your beliefs and theology straightened out. Until then, remember that not fighting against evil is the same as promoting it, and leaves one just as guilty.
See ya around, but I don't feel that continuing to read or respond to your posts is edifying, since plain words in the gospel are not accepted.

Chrys

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Chrysoprasus:
Post-it, STOP! WRONG WAY! Turn around, walk TOWARD the light!
PROV 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

PROV 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

PROV 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

PROV 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

I sincerely hope you get your beliefs and theology straightened out. Until then, remember that not fighting against evil is the same as promoting it, and leaves one just as guilty.
See ya around, but I don't feel that continuing to read or respond to your posts is edifying, since plain words in the gospel are not accepted.

Chrys

I guess this means you will continue the witch hunt for girls who abort. The evil of their death through illegal abortions is somehow justified?
a girls life we know to be murder when taken, a fetus...? Not even the Bible says it is.

I see you have had to using verses out of context in your last post here. But I do realize, that having to really look at scripture on this subject can bring up too many questions. Our "nature" tells us to go along with the crowd, to twist scripture to match what our denomination believes, after all they must be right; isn't the crown generally more right in their decisions than the individual?

Through out history, for most churches (and most nations), a witch hunt for one or two "types" are always underway. They pick a minority which the crowd can rally against, then persecute them. They paint a picture of them in vile, sinful, depraved, evil, and despicable manner. They then find scripture that proves this new devil deservers their wrath and most likely, death. They then develop a case and put out propaganda to the masses. This is where harm is usually done to innocent persons. Soon, the masses realize, they have been duped and turn against the idea and figure out the correct way of handling the situation which also is supported by scripture. Eventually the Church or Nation cave into the public opinion then drops it, and starts it all over again with a new devil on earth.

One can actually see where in the stages of the witch hunt we are at with any given subject manner. Some are short time periods and others are longer.
At one time in the 1950’s, the FBI was actually assassinating suspected “communists leaders” in this country.
What we join or support in the witch hunts do make us feel superior and God-like and reinforces that it is the “right” thing to do and we are God’s chosen. But after the party is over, only guilt and understanding of what truly was the greater evil, remains.

The “Pro-Life Movement” by name alone gives us a first hint at it being a “cause” that will rally a group against another group. One group fight to save what they think is human life with no real bases from scripture to do so. The other Group fights to save the lives of women from illegal abortions, they have scripture that is very clearly to their side, that women are worthy life forms to save.

As a member of society and the Church, who do you think we should kill, the fetus or women? This is your only choice, you can’t rewrite sin nature and say women who have abortions get what they deserve. Even saved Christians get pregnant and will choose to have an abortion.

So I have look over scripture to see which group I need to support. I have chosen that a woman’s life, even though she be a sinner or made a stupid choice of abortion, is more important and more valuable, more meaningful, than the fetus who God chose for whatever reason, to gloss over in scripture. But I do know what scripture says about a live, breathing person… They are Alive and worthy to be saved from back alley butchers and their own ignorance.

[ September 21, 2002, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[Clint Kritzer]

So I have look over scripture to see which group I need to support. I have chosen that a woman’s life, even though she be a sinner or made a stupid choice of abortion, is more important and more valuable, more meaningful, than the fetus who God chose for whatever reason, to gloss over in scripture.

Amos 1:13
Thus says the LORD: "For three transgressions of the Ammonites, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment, because they have ripped open pregnant women in Gilead, that they might enlarge their border.

Why do you suppose this is the first of four sins listed and that of all the bloodshed committed by the Ammonites, the killing of both the mother and fetus are listed? The unborn are not glossed over, you just hadn't seen this.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Clint Kritzer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> So I have look over scripture to see which group I need to support. I have chosen that a woman’s life, even though she be a sinner or made a stupid choice of abortion, is more important and more valuable, more meaningful, than the fetus who God chose for whatever reason, to gloss over in scripture.

Amos 1:13
Thus says the LORD: "For three transgressions of the Ammonites, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment, because they have ripped open pregnant women in Gilead, that they might enlarge their border.

Why do you suppose this is the first of four sins listed and that of all the bloodshed committed by the Ammonites, the killing of both the mother and fetus are listed? The unborn are not glossed over, you just hadn't seen this.</font>[/QUOTE]I have seen this, and it is an actual reporting of a factual event, not a commentary on the death of the unborn by the acts carried out. In other words, if the punishment by God had been because the enemy had killed our women who knew how to use a sword in battle because this might enlarge our borders, then it isn’t a commentary on a woman’s ability to use a sword, but on the death of these women only.

Moreover, the context of the women being pregnant was to establish that the killing of women prevented the birth of additional people that would keep the numbers of people inside the border smaller. So the reference is in a general meaning of preventing a growth of a population.

[ September 21, 2002, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[post-it]

This issue boils down to only two choices one MUST SIDE WITH. I can't see a third option.

Who or what do we allow to die? Because one segment will die!

Women or early fetus'?

 

[Helen]

Not necessarily, post-it. I was advised to abort Scott because he may well have killed me.

He will be 29 in October, is the best son I could have ever had (he loans ME money!), and, to the best of my knowledge, I am still alive.

At least I am still breathing....

I think you would be surprised at how very, very rarely the decision must actually be made between a mother's and child's life. Usually, for one reason or another, there is no real choice to be made if there is an emergency. The rest of the time, most of us manage to both stay alive no matter!

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Helen:
Not necessarily, post-it. I was advised to abort Scott because he may well have killed me.

He will be 29 in October, is the best son I could have ever had (he loans ME money!), and, to the best of my knowledge, I am still alive.

At least I am still breathing....

I think you would be surprised at how very, very rarely the decision must actually be made between a mother's and child's life. Usually, for one reason or another, there is no real choice to be made if there is an emergency. The rest of the time, most of us manage to both stay alive no matter!

I wasn't referring to that kind of choice. I was referring to the fact that if abortion is made illegal, then we go back to more women dying in illegal abortions.

The choice is either women will die (illegal abortions after a law is passed) or fetus' will die (legal abortions now). Is there another choice? I don't see one.

btw, fetus' will continue to die under either choice.

[ September 21, 2002, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[Alex]

Post it:

I happened to find a verse in Psalms 51:3 as follows&gt;&gt;&gt;

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Does this not indicate a HUMAN at conception? Maybe I am reading something into it that isn't.

What is your opinion?

God Bless..........Alex

 

[Helen]

post-it, FAR more women die of legal abortions than ever did when it was illegal. Far more children die, too. Tons more.

And when you consider the incredible numbers of abortions and that a certain percentage are always going to result in future infertility, that means we are harming more women in terms of numbers.

And when you consider that there will always be a fairly high percentage of women who end up severely depressed within five years after an abortion, we are damaging them, too.

Even if you JUST go by percentages, holding them the same (which is arbitrary, but gives legal abortion the edge for your sake), the numbers represented by those percentages in each case are wildly different.

Millions of women are being hurt every year by legal abortions.

Making it illegal would save the lives and health of untold women, not to mention the children.

 

[preacher]

What happened to the 3rd choice...have the child?

 

[Helen]

That's what I did. And he is an incredible blessing!

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by preacher:
What happened to the 3rd choice...have the child?

So you are saying that it is your opinion that no women will continue to abort illegally if a law is passed?

That isn't a 3rd choice. I'm serious and you are trying to play word games. We are talking about your daughter, your grandaughter, her daughter and so on. Which one are you willing to give up because they made a mistake and the law allows their death because of it?

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Helen:
[QB]post-it, FAR more women die of legal abortions than ever did when it was illegal. Far more children die, too. Tons more.

And when you consider the incredible numbers of abortions and that a certain percentage are always going to result in future infertility, that means we are harming more women in terms of numbers.

Helen, you know as well as I that your numbers are being compared against illegal abortions from over 20 years ago. Once you then add in the fact that it is a well known procedure, I would estimate almost the same number of women will continue to have the illegal abortion and you would have an expotiental increase in complication deaths due to the procedure outside the rules of medicine.

And when you consider that there will always be a fairly high percentage of women who end up severely depressed within five years after an abortion, we are damaging them, too.

Yes, depressed because we tell them they murdered their kid... what else would you expect?

 

[Grammy1013]

Originally posted by post-it:

I would estimate almost the same number of women will continue to have the illegal abortion and you would have an expotiental increase in complication deaths due to the procedure outside the rules of medicine.

Yes, depressed because we tell them they murdered their kid... what else would you expect?[/QB]

YOUR estimate of the same number of women continuing to have illegal abortions and the fact that women get depressed because they murdered their children is no justification for keeping it legal and thus, endorsing the sin.

There IS no justification for endorsing sin. None.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by Grammy1013:

There IS no justification for endorsing sin. None.[/QB]

Where is the justification that it is sin?