Life Elsewhere in the Universe

[HeirofSalvation]

Great post question!!!!!:wavey::thumbsup::tongue3:

This is a fascinating question!!! not easily known or understood....if we take the whole of the Biblical account into consideration, and yet, admittedly use our imaginations a little about how God's essential nature is revealed....here is my take:

Old Earth people tend to think there is life elsewhere, and New Earth thinks there is not. I believe in Genesis 1 literally, or New Earth, but I also believe there is life elsewhere.

This is probably a correct assesment of "Old-earth" and "new-earth" views, but fundamentally, this should have little or no bearing on the topic....it is inherently immaterial whether one subscribes to either view...I am "young-earth"

I bolded "Essential Nature" above because I tend to think that this is the best thing we have to go on to answer this....In other words....Is God a being such that he would or would not desire to create numerous worlds wherein all of his essential properties are ultimately expressed through different manifestations, revelations of himself et. al. This is the foundation of how I view this question..

I cannot find Scripture to support or not support the idea.

This is VERY important in my view...not only that, but what the Bible DOES tell us is that God has intentionally refused/failed to reveal many things to us that are decidedly knowable.

With the vastness of the universe that the Lord created, billions of stars, galaxies, and planets, I just cannot imagine we are it.

It seems most arrogant to me to say out of the millions, if not billions, of stars and planets that earth is the only one with intelligent life.

Both your quote Saturn, and crabtown boys I included because they convey the same basic idea (I think) but I would actually disagree with the assertion.....for this reason:

This seems to me to suggest that God might somehow be otherwise bored (for a lack of better terms) with merely one planet/ one form of intelligent life etc...and that God has created this universe with an intention other than that of merely expressing what he (by definition) IS namely ...love. We cannot (IMO) think that despite its vasteness think that somehow more space/numbers of creatures/more intelligent life could somehow keep him more occupied as it were: He is infinite. This is why I think it incumbent upon us to understand the necessity of his character more than anything else to answer this....there should be an obvious why so to speak. The intelligent life on this planet is adequate to explain at least that facet of himself, but it does possibly get more complicated than this:

Why would the Lord have to have the same plan of salvation if one was even necessary?

Have you read C.S. Lewis' book, "Out of the Silent Planet"?

I again pasted yours and CTB's post together because they both suggest a similar idea: namely: that assuming intelligent life or (more to the point) "free-willed-creatures" that God would I think be interested in....the end result should not be assumed to be the same...What if the "Adam" of "planet Venus" per Lewis's suggestion in "Out of the Silent Planet" never did fall from grace....what might happen if a fallen man did arrive upon a planet God made with "free-willed" beings who remain in a state of innocence? Lewis explores these ideas, and CTB is right!!!! It is well worth the read...Not only "Out of the Silent Planet" but the rest of the "Space Trilogy" series....more is added to this by his book "Miracles" My personal view is that there is most likely NOT intelligent life on other Planets, but that more importantly, since God has refused to reveal to us otherwise.....the best guess we can proffet is to take what we understand to be the necessity of his character and consider whether or not his purposes with the creative act are fully entailed by his creation of Earth....and mankind more importantly.

My personal conclusion? There probably isn't, but It is certainly not at all impossible or even improbable...

Sorry for the long post, and if I have mis-used/mis-construed either your quotes or CTB...my apologies....please correct me if I have.

 

[saturneptune]

No, the post was not too long. This is one of those rare subjects that holds a fascination regardless of which side one takes, and not something that has an end result like an election-free will debate. Your points are very interesting especially using the character of the Lord as a measure of the chances He did create something else.

 

[Scarlett O.]

A number of years ago, I heard someone say that the Garden of Eden was actually not on earth, but somewhere else. When Adam and Eve sinned and were take out of the Garden of Eden, they were actually transported here to earth.

Has anyone else heard of this type of thing?

Well, you know if you visit enough Bible discussion forums that you can hear just about anything! :laugh: :laugh: I've heard that theory before, myself.

I know that you don't believe that to be credible.

I don't believe this to be credible because Genesis 2 speaks of the fact that "God planted the garden in the east" - I can only assume that this is talking about a specific direction on the earth. And besides, that same context is speaking of lack of shrubs, rain, yet an abundance of trees on the earth. If the garden were on another planet, the Word would have said, "God planted a garden on Pluto". :tongue3:

Also Genesis 2 mentions specific rivers such as the Tigris and Euphrates as being part of the headwaters of the garden.

And....when Adam and Eve were cast out, there were cheribum and flamings swords to keep humanity from returning to the garden and eating from the Tree of Life - thereby never having a chance to die. If Adam and Eve were banished from another planet, then there would be no need of protecting them from returning as they couldn't.

 

[preachinjesus]

By life I believe you mean intelligent life. I also believe there is life out there ... both intelligent life and life such as bacteria, viruses, etc., etc. It seems most arrogant to me to say out of the millions, if not billions, of stars and planets that earth is the only one with intelligent life.

This is where I am on the question.

There is probably life outside this solar system.

I don't know if its intelligent....but we will never know. The closest inhabitable planet (according to NASA) is so far away that if we started today, using existing technology we wouldn't get there for 3,500 years.

It is simply unknowable and no way anyone could speculate positively or negatively. It isn't an issue about the incarnation. It is simply, like so many other things, unknowable.

...thought about this again...just in case our alien overlords are watching...It's difficult to tell from this vantage point whether these alien leaders will consume the captive mankind or merely enslave us. One thing is for certain, there is no stopping them; the aliens will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted theological personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.



...

 

[Scarlett O.]

The closest inhabitable planet (according to NASA) is so far away that if we started today, using existing technology we wouldn't get there for 3,500 years.

It is simply unknowable and no way anyone could speculate positively or negatively. It isn't an issue about the incarnation. It is simply, like so many other things, unknowable.

To me, therein lies the bulk of the point.

The universe, while greatly wonderous to us and fascinating and interesting, wasn't created to appease our curiousity.

It was created by God to please Him and bring Him glory.

We will never know the ins and outs of the universe. We can't even understand all the ins and outs of a simple brain cell or how those crazy sea turtles always make back to the same beach they were birthed at or why people's behavior changes during a full moon.

 

[Aaron]

Let me answer by first asking you: How many incarnations were there of God's Son?

I don't mean that in a snippy way. I only mean that how one answers that question lead on to those other questions you posed. Good questions too.

Bingo!

This earth was created for the purpose of the Cross, in which the eternal Son eternally glorified the eternal Father, and this earth will be the stage upon which the divine denouement takes place, and afterward the universe will be folded like a vesture and changed.

All the vastness and innumerable hosts are not there for life. They are there to declare the glory of God to us here on this earth.

 

[Amy.G]

Well, we know that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, there are Seraphim and Cherubim, so yes there is life out there.

I know that's not what you meant, but there it is.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Bingo!

This earth was created for the purpose of the Cross, in which the eternal Son eternally glorified the eternal Father, and this earth will be the stage upon which the divine denouement takes place, and afterward the universe will be folded like a vesture and changed.

All the vastness and innumerable hosts are not there for life. They are there to declare the glory of God to us here on this earth.

How do you know this?

The Bible only reveals what God wants us to know. There are many mysteries of our own Earth that the Bible doesn't reveal, so why would we automatically rule out the existence of any other world?

Why would the Bible need to include any information about another world that we will never experience?

God has given us everything we NEED know, but He hasn't given us everything He knows.

And I believe it is arrogant of us humans to believe He has.

John

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

For a simplistic answer...I've always wondered why in the very first verse of the Bible...Heavens is plural, and Earth is singular?


And, at that time, why would God differentiate things if there wasn't a reason?

Why not say "In the Beginning God created everything"...or "In the Beginning God created Earth and life on Earth" or something to that nature.

I think it is telling and very intentional that it was "Heavens" and "Earth"...


Of course, I'm not sure if the original translation is the same as well. Just something I've always pondered. Not spent a lot of time on research though. Didn't know if any of you ever wondered that either.

 

[seekingthetruth]

For that matter, how do we know that God is the only one of his kind?

He is our one and only God, but how do we know that He was alone before He created the Earth and man?

Perhaps there are others like Him that have created other universes.

It seems unlikely to me that

1. God is the only being of His kind

2. That in this vast universe, that we are all there is.

The argument that this can't be true because the Bible doesn't reveal it is a shallow argument because these are things that we can wonder about, but we really don't need to know. So why should the Bible reveal it?

John

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

For that matter, how do we know that God is the only one of his kind?

He is our one and only God, but how do we know that He was alone before He created the Earth and man?

Perhaps there are others like Him that have created other universes.

It seems unlikely to me that

1. God is the only being of His kind

2. That in this vast universe, that we are all there is.

The argument that this can't be true because the Bible doesn't reveal it is a shallow argument because these are things that we can wonder about, but we really don't need to know. So why should the Bible reveal it?

John

God revealed to us the trinity, so if there were more "gods" why wouldn't he reveal those too?


Sounds stacked like that whole urantia cult.

 

[freeatlast]

This thread was done several years ago, but with the Old Earth, New Earth thread, it sounds like a fascinating subject. I have noticed there is a connection between the earth theories and this thread. Old Earth people tend to think there is life elsewhere, and New Earth thinks there is not. I believe in Genesis 1 literally, or New Earth, but I also believe there is life elsewhere.

I would be interested in what everyone else thinks. I cannot find Scripture to support or not support the idea. All I know for sure is that if there is life, God created it. For those against it, please state where you get the belief from in Scripture, not from the writings of a dead theologean.

With the vastness of the universe that the Lord created, billions of stars, galaxies, and planets, I just cannot imagine we are it.

The two greatest mysteries that man has sought answers to from the beginning are life after death, and life away from Earth. We know the answer to the first.

[SIZE=+0]Actually I believe that there is scripture to disprove the theory that life exists any place other then earth. In the creation account we have the creation spelled out which includes planets, stars, heavenly host, and even space itself and there is no mention of any life other then on earth.
We know that satan and his demons were cast to earth, not some other planet. We know Jesus can only die once for the sins of man and unless you hold that there are sinless beings someplace else they must be in big trouble without a Saviour.
Also we know that the fall had an effect on all creation as all creation groans because of the fall that happened here on earth (Romans 8:22). If there was life in other places it would mean that the fall of man had an effect on life in other places because all creation now groans. Every event in the creation and judgment is based on what happens here on earth and with man here on earth. There is simply no biblical reason to believe that life is in other places, but there is biblical reason not to believe it.

[/SIZE]

 

[freeatlast]

For that matter, how do we know that God is the only one of his kind?

He is our one and only God, but how do we know that He was alone before He created the Earth and man?

Perhaps there are others like Him that have created other universes.

It seems unlikely to me that

1. God is the only being of His kind

2. That in this vast universe, that we are all there is.

The argument that this can't be true because the Bible doesn't reveal it is a shallow argument because these are things that we can wonder about, but we really don't need to know. So why should the Bible reveal it?

John

We know God is the only God because He says He is.
Isaiah 44:6
6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
Isa 45:5I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

 

[Amy.G]

For a simplistic answer...I've always wondered why in the very first verse of the Bible...Heavens is plural, and Earth is singular?

The bible teaches that there are 3 heavens. The earth's atmosphere is the first, then outer space, then the 3rd is where God's throne is.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

The bible teaches that there are 3 heavens. The earth's atmosphere is the first, then outer space, then the 3rd is where God's throne is.

That's what I'm saying. "Heaven" is plural, but Earth is singular.

Why mention Earth at all if it wasn't special. Earth would be part of the "Heavens"...because it is in outer space. But Earth was singled out. Earth is where we are. Earth is where Christ died for us.

 

[revmwc]

1 Corinthians 15:
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Phillipians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

What does all this say Christ took on the form of a man, He became a man and physically died for our sins. But not for ours alone but the sins of all, now if their were other forms of intelligent life would not Christ need to become in thier form to pay for their sins? If He had to become a man and have His blood (Human) shed for man then too would He need to become an alien to pay for the sins of the alien. It says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God that would mean the alien life forms would it not? So Christ died once for all mankind not all life forms otherwise Satan and His angels would be covered, but since angels can't die Christ couldn't take on the form of an angel and die. So I don't see that there are otehr life forms, if there Christ had to die for them in their form and the Bible says Christ died once for all.

 

[seekingthetruth]

We know God is the only God because He says He is.
Isaiah 44:6
6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
Isa 45:5I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Yes, FAL, as He is relevent to us, He is the one and only God. But there is no evidence that He was alone before He created the Earth (other than Jesus and the HS).

You have to remember that the Bible was written for us, not for the whole universe. If there are other universes, then they are not relevent to us. If there is more life on other planets, they are not relevent to us. If there are more beings like God then they are not relevent to us. Or Bible is relevent to us, and gives us all we need to know.....that doesnt mean it reveals ALL knowledge, just the knowledge that God has given us.

I am not saying there are definitely more beings like God, i am just saying that it is possible, and that we have no way of knowing.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

1 Corinthians 15:
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Phillipians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

What does all this say Christ took on the form of a man, He became a man and physically died for our sins. But not for ours alone but the sins of all, now if their were other forms of intelligent life would not Christ need to become in thier form to pay for their sins? If He had to become a man and have His blood (Human) shed for man then too would He need to become an alien to pay for the sins of the alien. It says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God that would mean the alien life forms would it not? So Christ died once for all mankind not all life forms otherwise Satan and His angels would be covered, but since angels can't die Christ couldn't take on the form of an angel and die. So I don't see that there are otehr life forms, if there Christ had to die for them in their form and the Bible says Christ died once for all.

Rev, Christ died for our sins. How does that prove there is no life on other planets? Perhaps He went to those as well. Since another world would not be relevent to us in any way, why would our Bible include such information?

Our Bible was written to us on Earth.

John

 

[freeatlast]

Yes, FAL, as He is relevent to us, He is the one and only God. But there is no evidence that He was alone before He created the Earth (other than Jesus and the HS).

You have to remember that the Bible was written for us, not for the whole universe. If there are other universes, then they are not relevent to us. If there is more life on other planets, they are not relevent to us. If there are more beings like God then they are not relevent to us. Or Bible is relevent to us, and gives us all we need to know.....that doesnt mean it reveals ALL knowledge, just the knowledge that God has given us.

I am not saying there are definitely more beings like God, i am just saying that it is possible, and that we have no way of knowing.

John

If God does not know of others like Him then He is not all knowing. That means He is not the beginning and the end, the first and the last and only God as He claims.

 

[seekingthetruth]

[SIZE=+0]Actually I believe that there is scripture to disprove the theory that life exists any place other then earth. In the creation account we have the creation spelled out which includes planets, stars, heavenly host, and even space itself and there is no mention of any life other then on earth.
We know that satan and his demons were cast to earth, not some other planet. We know Jesus can only die once for the sins of man and unless you hold that there are sinless beings someplace else they must be in big trouble without a Saviour.
Also we know that the fall had an effect on all creation as all creation groans because of the fall that happened here on earth (Romans 8:22). If there was life in other places it would mean that the fall of man had an effect on life in other places because all creation now groans. Every event in the creation and judgment is based on what happens here on earth and with man here on earth. There is simply no biblical reason to believe that life is in other places, but there is biblical reason not to believe it.

[/SIZE]

The Bible didnt include computers, cars, or IPhones, but they exist.

How do you know that the Bible is not just relevent to us? After it was written for us.

Look, I am not advocating that other life exists or that God wasnt alone before creation, I am simply trying to point out that the Bible only reveals what God wanted us to know. Beyond that we have no clue, and to state firmly "there is no life anywhere but Earth" is an arrogant statement because we just don't know.

Since other lifeforms are not relevent to us, why would the Bible include it if it exists?

Just because the Bible doesnt mention it doesnt mean it does not exist.

This is old school traditional thinking that rejects anything out of our comfort zone.

We just dont know

Anybody who says they know for sure is not being realistic.

John