Limited or Definite Atonement is the Gospel !

[The Biblicist]

Those jesus died for, in the place of, MUST receive that by faith in order to have it realized into their lives!

More than merely "realized" but actualized!

 

[savedbymercy]

A Works Salvation !

Those jesus died for, in the place of, MUST receive that by faith in order to have it realized into their lives!

You preach a Gospel of works. Those Christ died for were perfected forever, soley by Christ's Death or Offering Heb 10:14, this was before Faith or believing !

 

[DHK]

You preach a Gospel of works. Those Christ died for were perfected forever, soley by Christ's Death or Offering Heb 10:14, this was before Faith or believing !

Did you look at the entire context:

Hebrews 10:11-14 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

One priest stood daily offering one sacrifice for one person.
Thus every priest stood every day offering many sacrifices.
None of those sacrifices could ever take away sins.

But this man, Christ, offered one sacrifice for all men, and sat down.
By this one perfect sacrifice, complete sacrifice he has perfected them that have believed that are being sanctified throughout their lifetime. They will reach complete sanctification when Christ comes. Their salvation is complete now. It was completed at the cross, and it became completed when they received it by faith.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Did you look at the entire context:

Yes, that is where I happen to find vs 14 !

 

[DHK]

dhk

Yes, that is where I happen to find vs 14 !

That was my point entirely. Verse 14 is not the only verse in the chapter.

 

[savedbymercy]

That was my point entirely. Verse 14 is not the only verse in the chapter.

My point is what God says in vs 14 ! Christ's Death has perfected forever, those He died for ! Sorry, but nothing can change that fact ! If you do not believe it, too bad, see ya at the Judgment !

 

[DHK]

My point is what God says in vs 14 ! Christ's Death has perfected forever, those He died for ! Sorry, but nothing can change that fact ! If you do not believe it, too bad, see ya at the Judgment !

You said:

You preach a Gospel of works. Those Christ died for were perfected forever, soley by Christ's Death or Offering Heb 10:14, this was before Faith or believing !

I showed you through the context that this is not what the verse teaches.
But you neglect the teaching of the entire passage, and continue to pull that one verse out of the chapter and force your own meaning (which is not Biblical) into it. It is all your pre-determined theology forced into your hand-picked verses to a made-up theology that cannot be otherwise defended.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

I showed you through the context that this is not what the verse teaches

.

You did not show me nothing, but that you reject the Truth of Heb 10:14. Again, everyone Christ died for, or offered Himself for, have by that Offering been perfected forever !

 

[Yeshua1]

dhk

.

You did not show me nothing, but that you reject the Truth of Heb 10:14. Again, everyone Christ died for, or offered Himself for, have by that Offering been perfected forever !

Unless the person places faith in jesus though, his spiritual account before God is still that of sinner, judged and condemned already!

God has monies to apply in his First bank of heaven towards us, but faith in jesus is the accress card that lets Him debit our accounts!

 

[Yeshua1]

More than merely "realized" but actualized!

Good 'catch", as faith inchrist indeeds saves and secures us into the Kingdom of his Son jesus the Christ!

 

[savedbymercy]

Unless the person places faith in jesus though, his spiritual account before God is still that of sinner, judged and condemned already!

God has monies to apply in his First bank of heaven towards us, but faith in jesus is the accress card that lets Him debit our accounts!

Thats works salvation, all for whom Christ died are perfected forever, before they are born sinners !

Heb 10:14

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[savedbymercy]

yesh

as faith inchrist indeeds saves and secures us into the Kingdom of his Son jesus the Christ!

That is Blasphemy and a Denial of the saving Death of Christ !

 

[DHK]

Thats works salvation, all for whom Christ died are perfected forever, before they are born sinners !

Heb 10:14

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

It is evident he is writing to Christians isn't it?
He has perfected for ever (those that came to Christ by faith and thus were sanctified).

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

It is evident he is writing to Christians isn't it?

Of course Duh !

He has perfected for ever (those that came to Christ by faith and thus were sanctified)

He has perfected forever everyone He died for, and so everyone He died for shall believe in Him

The Just shall live by Faith !

 

[DHK]

dhk



Of course Duh !



He has perfected forever everyone He died for, and so everyone He died for shall believe in Him

The Just shall live by Faith !

If it is evident that he is writing to Christians then it is evident that he is writing to all who trusted him by faith.

 

[Don]

DHK - not sure why y'all are still going round-and-round with this guy. His mind is made up.

Question for you as a moderator: isn't there something in the posting rules about calling others blasphemers?

 

[savedbymercy]

If it is evident that he is writing to Christians then it is evident that he is writing to all who trusted him by faith.

Of course he is writing to Believers, but His Death Perfected forever all whom He died for ! For instance, Everyone Christ died for shall be born Again by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3, then they also will be Believers and so that will be more evidence of Christ's Death perfecting forever everyone He died for ! A Persons Faith does not Perfect anyone forever, but is only a evidence of the Fruitfulness of Christ's Death Jn 12:24

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Faith in Christ is His Fruit from His Death, isn't that Great ? But you do not believe that !

 

[DHK]

Of course he is writing to Believers, but His Death Perfected forever all whom He died for ! For instance, Everyone Christ died for shall be born Again by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3, then they also will be Believers and so that will be more evidence of Christ's Death perfecting forever everyone He died for ! A Persons Faith does not Perfect anyone forever, but is only a evidence of the Fruitfulness of Christ's Death Jn 12:24

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Faith in Christ is His Fruit from His Death, isn't that Great ? But you do not believe that !

Your right, I don't believe that. Let's test your theory out. A world of 6 to 7 billion is incomprehensible and even more unfathomable is the entire world for all ages or every age. That is who I believe Christ died for. I also believe that we all have the ability to believe in him, and that ability is not a supernatural gift from God.

So let's use an illustration that will help us understand this situation more.
Take the nation of Korea--both South and North.
South Korea is one of the most evangelized nations in Asia. A high percentage of its citizens are Christians.
In North Korea the nation has shut its doors to the gospel. It is a communist nation that is anti-god, anti-christ, with few believers if any.

In South Korea people freely evangelize and have the opportunity to believe of their own free will.
In North Korea, people cannot evangelize and believing in Christ is against the law.

If God is a just God, and election to salvation were just and true, then God would have as many elect in North Korea as he would in South Korea. After all he is just. He doesn't need you or me to evangelize because, as you say, faith is a work. They are elect, and without you or me they will become saved.

Therefore, what happened to the "elect" in North Korea? Where are they? Why aren't there any Christians there? Did God fail in his election? Is the dictator of North Korea greater than God that he can keep the "elect of God" from becoming "elect"? This is your position. The "elect" of North Korea will never become "elect" because of the government.

But in South Korea, the nation is swarming with Christians. People evangelize freely. Evangelical churches abound. The Word freely goes out. And "the elect" get saved on a daily basis.

They get saved because they believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ died for their sins. They hear the gospel, and by faith receive him as Lord. That is what happens in S. Korea. That is not what happens in N.Korea. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

yesh



That is Blasphemy and a Denial of the saving Death of Christ !

This is what jesus and the Apostle ALL taught!

That its thru His death that salvation has been provided for, but it only applies and saves those who place faith in jesus and His work for them!

 

[Yeshua1]

Your right, I don't believe that. Let's test your theory out. A world of 6 to 7 billion is incomprehensible and even more unfathomable is the entire world for all ages or every age. That is who I believe Christ died for. I also believe that we all have the ability to believe in him, and that ability is not a supernatural gift from God.

So let's use an illustration that will help us understand this situation more.
Take the nation of Korea--both South and North.
South Korea is one of the most evangelized nations in Asia. A high percentage of its citizens are Christians.
In North Korea the nation has shut its doors to the gospel. It is a communist nation that is anti-god, anti-christ, with few believers if any.

In South Korea people freely evangelize and have the opportunity to believe of their own free will.
In North Korea, people cannot evangelize and believing in Christ is against the law.

If God is a just God, and election to salvation were just and true, then God would have as many elect in North Korea as he would in South Korea. After all he is just. He doesn't need you or me to evangelize because, as you say, faith is a work. They are elect, and without you or me they will become saved. Therefore, what happened to the "elect" in North Korea? Where are they? Why aren't there any Christians there? Did God fail in his election? Is the dictator of North Korea greater than God that he can keep the "elect of God" from becoming "elect"? This is your position. The "elect" of North Korea will never become "elect" because of the government.

Not to quibble here, but the Lord can indeed have just as many of His elect in either N/S Korea, and to those whom salvation has been purchased for by the death of jesus, he will make sure those in N Korea will get the message, whether by radio/tv/internet/etc! God will get his message out to those who need to get it!

But in South Korea, the nation is swarming with Christians. People evangelize freely. Evangelical churches abound. The Word freely goes out. And "the elect" get saved on a daily basis.

They get saved because they believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Christ died for their sins. They hear the gospel, and by faith receive him as Lord. That is what happens in S. Korea. That is not what happens in N.Korea. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Those saved out from N Korea saved same way, its just that the Lord knows His own and will make sure they get the message!