37818
Well-Known Member
It we'll be before the second appearing of Christ, Luke 21:25-27. Revelation 6:12-17.
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Logic & Reason in the Face of Incomplete Knowledge
- Thread starter JD731
- Start date
No, the 'cross reference' is found in the same chapter of Luke:
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21
Now, that's 'clarity'.
37818
Well-Known Member
No. The word of God does not conclude this. Galatians 6:16 makes a distinction between "them" and,the "Israel of God."
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I agree. Once every person that is going to be saved, both Jew and Gentile, is saved, Christ will return to collect His bride.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
The signs of Revelation 6:12-17, Hebrews 9:28.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The passage you quoted does support my pint.
Gal 6:16 states “those that follow this rule…the Israel of God”.
What rule? v. 15 says circumcision means nothing. Uncircumcised means nothing. The only thing that matters is the “new man”.
Paul says in Ephesians that God has joined together Jew and Gentile into “one new man” by His work on the cross. They now both have access to Gods by the Spirit. This union of Jew and Gentile shall demonstrate Christ’s grace “in the ages to come”.
So yes, Galatians 6:15-16 does support my understanding of Romans 11:15 that the “Israel of God” is made up of both Jews and Gentiles that are saved by grace through faith in Christ.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
Wow. We are not agreeing on the word of God in Galatians 6:16. We can go no further, ". . . και οσοι τω κανονι τουτω στοιχησουσιν ειρηνη επ αυτους και ελεος και επι τον ισραηλ του θεου . . . .
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Let’s look at the passage and show me what I missed. Verse 15 defines the “rule” Paul mentions in verse 16.
There is no use throwing biblical Greek at me. It would take hours for me to translate what you wrote.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. . . ." Two groups. The them [uncircumcised] and the Israel [circumcised] of God.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Ok, does “them” refer to those who are walking according to “this rule”. The rule being that circumcision and uncircumcision mean nothing. The only thing that matters is the “new creature “?
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
Christians uncircumcised and circumcised being both gentiles and the Israel of God. The circumcision or uncircumcision not being what makes one a Christian.
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Logic and reason in the face of the eternal state, which is revealed in Re 21& 22.
There is still a heaven and there is still an earth
There is still a sun and a moon
There is still a division of months
There are still nations on the earth
There are still kings on the earth
There are no sinners there
There is no sin there
There is no remembrance of sinners there
There are no tears
There is no night there
The tree of life is in the New Jerusalem
It has 12 manners of fruit on it
It bears every month
Logic says 12 months is a unit in the New Jerusalem
The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Logic
The end to which the scriptures directs us is to the last two chapters in the scriptures where the the heavens rules over the earth and all the heaven and the earth is in blissful eternal harmony.
Therefore logic and reasoning concludes that religion and politics and the kingdom of God is what the entire word of God is about and if one cannot perceive this he will always be commenting from a lack of knowledge and understanding and will likely go astray in his assessment of the whole story of mankind.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John, in the Revelation, was the first man to see the kingdom of God, and he was born again.
There is still a heaven and there is still an earth
There is still a sun and a moon
There is still a division of months
There are still nations on the earth
There are still kings on the earth
There are no sinners there
There is no sin there
There is no remembrance of sinners there
There are no tears
There is no night there
The tree of life is in the New Jerusalem
It has 12 manners of fruit on it
It bears every month
Logic says 12 months is a unit in the New Jerusalem
The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Logic
The end to which the scriptures directs us is to the last two chapters in the scriptures where the the heavens rules over the earth and all the heaven and the earth is in blissful eternal harmony.
Therefore logic and reasoning concludes that religion and politics and the kingdom of God is what the entire word of God is about and if one cannot perceive this he will always be commenting from a lack of knowledge and understanding and will likely go astray in his assessment of the whole story of mankind.
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John, in the Revelation, was the first man to see the kingdom of God, and he was born again.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I see the context in light of the only thing that matters is the “new man”. The “new man” is made up of Jews and Gentiles and together are the Israel of God.
Thanks for the conversation
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
?? What you are saying makes no sense.
37818
Well-Known Member
No, the Israel of God can only be Jewish circumcised Christians. Gentiles can be either uncircumcised or circumcised. And gentiles who are circumcised are not any of the recognized twelve tribes. Notice the tribes given for the 144,000.
Circumcision plays no role in being a Christian.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying and disagree. I do not believe the “Israel of God” refers to Jewish circumcised Christians. It makes no sense for Paul to say circumcision and uncircumcision mean nothing, and then in the next breath make a distinction between Christians who are circumcised and those that are not.
The “Israel of God” contains both Jew and Gentile, saved by grace through in Jesus. That makes sense to me.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
God made the distinction.
Genesis 17:13 and Leviticus 12:3. That part of the Law He first gave to Abraham. And God did not lie. That is why Paul explained what he did that it is distinct between Jew and non-Jew in being a Christian. Romans 1:16, Galatians 5:15-16. You can believe how you want. I think you should have a clear understand of what I think is the Biblical view.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I understand your view. I appreciate it. I just think you are wrong.
In Romans 9-11, Paul explains the children of Abraham are the children of the promise, not the flesh. They make up both Jew and gentile, saved by grace through faith.
In Ephesians, Paul is clear the two groups have been brought together as one “new man” by the cross of Christ. He uses similar language in the Galatians.
I appreciate the civil conversation. I hope we can continue to dialogue.
peace to you