Looking for a good answer

[Yeshua1]

It says sexual immorality and unnatural desire. Those cover more than homosexuality. You just seem to have a thing about that one sin.

strange flesh/unnatural desires, that would be SAME as paul expounded upon in Romans 1 paasage, correct?

 

[Zaac]

strange flesh/unnatural desires, that would be SAME as paul expounded upon in Romans 1 paasage, correct?

I'm still waiting for you to show me where Scripture says that one sin is the primary reason God destroyed Sodom.

 

[prophet]

We're gonna leave this alone because the many of us, as well as you, are very well aware of what you were doing.:thumbs:

Saturneptune, it's interesting that you say this:


I was looking up the Scriptural uses of the word perversion yesterday because of the mentioned reference by Yeshua of Sodom in Jude.
7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. Jude 7

And I thought it interesting that Scripture uses PERVERSION and part of what was going on in Sodom to be akin to what is mentioned in Leviticus.

“‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. Lev. 18:23

Really came to mind when you mentioned the ewe.:laugh:

“‘If a man has sexual relations with his daughter-in-law, both of them are to be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads. Lev. 20:12

I was reading Romans 1, and Jude, and I don't think that I said anything out of the ordinary or extreme.

This mysterious "you know" stuff, ...well, no, I don't know. Do you mind expounding?

I was under the impression that we were having a Biblical discussion.
My view is that "strange flesh" in Jude, refers to reprobates given up by God (Romans 1) and burnt with fire from Heaven.
The one story that we have of Sodom, describing their sin, which God reminds us of in Jude, is the story of queer men, asking for Lot to hand over the angels that came to warn him, so that they might engage in perverse sexuality with them. When Lot tried to intervene, by pointing out that they were wrong, they turned on him, and tried to rape him, and he had to be rescued by the angels.

This story , we are told in Jude, is an example.
Romans 1 delves into the downward spiral a little deeper, ending with men "filled with all unrighteousness", which is the next stop on the crazy train after they're picked up at the homo depot.

I can understand, if you disagree with my take, but I believe my take is mainstream.

 

[Zaac]

I was reading Romans 1, and Jude, and I don't think that I said anything out of the ordinary or extreme.

This mysterious "you know" stuff, ...well, no, I don't know. Do you mind expounding?

I think Scarlet addressed it. There was just no reason for the name calling.

I was under the impression that we were having a Biblical discussion.

Yes. But the Bible speaks to us using words to build up, to exhort. Not to tear down and malign. And I'm pretty sure Scripture hasn't referred to anyone as queer. As was mentioned, the word is meant to malign.

My view is that "strange flesh" in Jude, refers to reprobates given up by God (Romans 1) and burnt with fire from Heaven.
The one story that we have of Sodom, describing their sin, which God reminds us of in Jude, is the story of queer men, asking for Lot to hand over the angels that came to warn him, so that they might engage in perverse sexuality with them. When Lot tried to intervene, by pointing out that they were wrong, they turned on him, and tried to rape him, and he had to be rescued by the angels.

This story , we are told in Jude, is an example.
Romans 1 delves into the downward spiral a little deeper, ending with men "filled with all unrighteousness", which is the next stop on the crazy train after they're picked up at the homo depot.

I can understand, if you disagree with my take, but I believe my take is mainstream.

I don't think anyone questioned your take being mainstream. The comments have been around your use of the word "queer".

 

[prophet]

This is the last time I'll say anything about this, it is a distraction from the discussion.
The word "queer" is a synonymn for "strange", which is why i used it. It ties in to the verse in Jude.
Where I grew up, in Chicagoland, queers used the word "queer" , not the word "gay", to describe themself.

"Calling herself a “liberal queer,” Maya Marcel-Keyes, 19, went public with her sexual orientation yesterday at a rally in Annapolis sponsored by Equality Maryland, the state’s largest civil-rights organization for homosexuals."

This excerpt is from WND (world net daily) published 2/15/2005, in case you want to read the article. In it, Maya uses the word "queer" conversationally, to describe herself several times.

I met Maya, and discussed the Gospel with her in late 0ctober of '04, so this isnt a complete stranger.

Anyway, I won't belabor the point. "Queer" is not name-calling, not from me.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think Scarlet addressed it. There was just no reason for the name calling.



Yes. But the Bible speaks to us using words to build up, to exhort. Not to tear down and malign. And I'm pretty sure Scripture hasn't referred to anyone as queer. As was mentioned, the word is meant to malign.



I don't think anyone questioned your take being mainstream. The comments have been around your use of the word "queer".

Prophet and I have been giving you the main Conservative/Evangelical/Fundamentalist take on this, do you disagree with all of us, and most importantly, God himself?

 

[Zaac]

Prophet and I have been giving you the main Conservative/Evangelical/Fundamentalist take on this, do you disagree with all of us, and most importantly, God himself?

Ain't no need to try and pull anybody else into your mess. If you and conservative/evangelical/fundamentalists are teaching what you are, then you're all false teachers because Scripture doesn't say what you say.

So again, show us the Scripture where God says that the primary reason HE destroyed Sodom was the homosexual offense. I'll wait for you to look it up.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ain't no need to try and pull anybody else into your mess. If you and conservative/evangelical/fundamentalists are teaching what you are, then you're all false teachers because Scripture doesn't say what you say.

So again, show us the Scripture where God says that the primary reason HE destroyed Sodom was the homosexual offense. I'll wait for you to look it up.

God said that it was due to sexual peversions, gross sins, that involved starnge flesh, andmen lusted after and having sex with other men...

that was the ONLY sin mentioned in a specific way......

Where did we get term sodomy from?

"If you were really blind, there would be no sin, but because you claim to be able to see"....

 

[Zaac]

God said that it was due to sexual peversions, gross sins, that involved starnge flesh, andmen lusted after and having sex with other men...

See how you added that "S" to sin? But you said

bible CLEARLY stated that their great sin was lusting after strange flesh, for sexual peerversions, and for wanting to have sex with same sex, so what would you call it then?

And you've made similar statements repeatedly in the past. So once and for all, how about you show us where Scripture, not YESHUA, says what their great sin was? Once and for all show us where Scripture, not YESHUA, says that God destroyed Sodom because of just their homosexual offenses.

that was the ONLY sin mentioned in a specific way......

So? There was no need to list out every sin. Sexual immorality and perversion, BIBLICALLY, cover a lot of different sins. Does God need to list them all for you every time HE says that?

Where did we get term sodomy from?

Who cares? That ain't got a hill of beans to do with your continued false teaching.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

See how you added that "S" to sin?

Irrelevant.

And you've made similar statements repeatedly in the past. So once and for all, how about you show us where Scripture, not YESHUA, says what their great sin was? Once and for all show us where Scripture, not YESHUA, says that God destroyed Sodom because of just their homosexual offenses.

You've been told multiple times, Zaac, what the nuance of the Hebrew language demands regarding translation of the numerous verses condemning homosexual practices as sin. The fact you refuse to believe that's what Scripture says does not change the fact that is what Scripture says.

So? There was no need to list out every sin. Sexual immorality and perversion, BIBLICALLY, cover a lot of different sins. Does God need to list them all for you every time HE says that?

The fact He on occasion addressed the sin of homosexual behavior separately is indicative of that sin being the main problem with a given people, society or person. Simple fact.

Who cares? That ain't got a hill of beans to do with your continued false teaching.

Sorry, Zaac, but your denial of homosexuality as sin described in the Bible is the false teaching, not what Yeshua is teaching.

 

[Zaac]

Irrelevant.You've been told multiple times, Zaac, what the nuance of the Hebrew language demands regarding translation of the numerous verses condemning homosexual practices as sin. The fact you refuse to believe that's what Scripture says does not change the fact that is what Scripture says.The fact He on occasion addressed the sin of homosexual behavior separately is indicative of that sin being the main problem with a given people, society or person. Simple fact.Sorry, Zaac, but your denial of homosexuality as sin described in the Bible is the false teaching, not what Yeshua is teaching.

Pure foolishness as I haven't denied anything as sin. Just add you to the false teaching list and moving on.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Pure foolishness as I haven't denied anything as sin.

Really? What do you call this?

And you've made similar statements repeatedly in the past. So once and for all, how about you show us where Scripture, not YESHUA, says what their great sin was? Once and for all show us where Scripture, not YESHUA, says that God destroyed Sodom because of just their homosexual offenses.

And this?

So? There was no need to list out every sin. Sexual immorality and perversion, BIBLICALLY, cover a lot of different sins. Does God need to list them all for you every time HE says that?

And this?

Who cares? That ain't got a hill of beans to do with your continued false teaching.

Abrogating the argument:

Just add you to the false teaching list and moving on.

Logical fallacy. Invalid statement. You made every one of those middle three statements in the same post denying Yeshua's statements that homosexuality is a sin. If they weren't intended to deny that, what exactly where they intended to do? They sure like your own false teaching to me.

 

[Yeshua1]

Pure foolishness as I haven't denied anything as sin. Just add you to the false teaching list and moving on.

Just make sure Jesus and His Apsotles get added to your false teaching list also!

Think they would agree with us, not so much your take!

 

[Zaac]

Just make sure Jesus and His Apsotles get added to your false teaching list also!

Think they would agree with us, not so much your take!

Why? The word of God ain't saying what you're saying so Jesus and the Disciples are fine.

It's YOUR teaching that's wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

Why? The word of God ain't saying what you're saying so Jesus and the Disciples are fine.

It's YOUR teaching that's wrong.

How so? please give me chapter and verse!

 

[Zaac]

How so? please give me chapter and verse!

Give you chapter and verse for what? How about you look at the chapter and verse and tell us what chapter and verse are saying what you are saying?:laugh:

DOn't be trying to turn this on me. YOU'RE the one saying Scripture says something it doesn't. So show me where it says what you say.

 

[Camery]

When we are faced with anything in which there is a right or wrong choice, the wrong choice denotes sin. Homosexuals are in this category. Although the right choice may be very difficult we are all given the ability to choose correctly.

When it comes to the baker being forced to make a cake for the homosexual couple and he finally made the cake, it was his weakness. A very important mark of a Christian is two fold. One is that we can't be controlled and the second is that we are to return good for evil.

We know the laws are becoming evil as they make changes and we should consider it joy to suffer for our Lord who suffered first for us, so I would have gladly accepted what the world calls a penalty and went to jail. This was a source of pride on the part of the homosexual couple and I would not have baked the cake for them.

A child of God in prison is freer than those who don't know him on the street.

 

[Yeshua1]

Give you chapter and verse for what? How about you look at the chapter and verse and tell us what chapter and verse are saying what you are saying?:laugh:

DOn't be trying to turn this on me. YOU'RE the one saying Scripture says something it doesn't. So show me where it says what you say.

Which biblcal truth do you disagree with here?

Sodomy is sexual perversion, as is Homosexuality being practiced/behaved/lived out

clear in bible that specific sin that God judged was homosexual behaviour, including sodomy

Why do you keep denying what God said for your own preferences regarding this issue?