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Looking for a good answer

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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And where does the Bible clearly state this?

well, when the 2 Angels went to visit Lot, the young and old men both went to have sex with them, to sodomize them, and Jude makes it very clear that they were judged and destroyed for sexual perversions and lusting after strange flesh!

Why can't you for once agree with God and his judgement on this sinful behaviour?
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
well, when the 2 Angels went to visit Lot, the young and old men both went to have sex with them, to sodomize them, and Jude makes it very clear that they were judged and destroyed for sexual perversions and lusting after strange flesh!

Why can't you for once agree with God and his judgement on this sinful behaviour?

Why can't you for once stop adding your own spin to Scripture. So once and for all, if Scripture says what you say, give us the Scripture that says what you say. Otherwise you're just embellishing what you want the Scripture to say in order to support the point you're always trying to make.
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
He's given you the scripture. It's now up to you to educate him as to how/why he's interpreting it incorrectly.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Why can't you for once stop adding your own spin to Scripture. So once and for all, if Scripture says what you say, give us the Scripture that says what you say. Otherwise you're just embellishing what you want the Scripture to say in order to support the point you're always trying to make.

How would you interprete those passages then?
 

Benjamin

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Well Judith, there are a number of reasons, but as a former pastor my opposition to homosexual “marriage” was based on religious freedom. You see marriage is a unique institution in that it is both an institution initiated and ordained by God, and also a civil contract before the state.

Unbelievers will sin, that is what they do. Homosexuality will increase in the land and it is a mark of our demise as a nation, but it is also what lost sinners do, they sin. So in keeping with idea of freedom of religion in America, I had no problem with homosexual “civil unions.” That sounds like a politician’s cop out to avoid the issue, but it is the truth. Married couples have certain unique priveledges under the law, from joint tax returns to insurance beneficiaries to family health care policies. I have no problem extending these benefits to homosexuals in a committed relationship. To deny these benefits in fact to me seems like religious persecution. They don’t believe what we do so we penalize them.

But, as soon as you call it “Marriage” you have changed the situation. Now instead of religious belief’s taking rights away from non-believers, we have non-believers forcing their views on the religious. Consider the baker who was forced to provide a wedding cake for a homosexual couple.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/12/Christian-Baker-Willing-to-Go-to-Jail-for-Declining-Gay-Wedding-Cake

How would you feel if your pastor was obligated, under the law, to conduct a wedding ceremony for a same sex couple? How would you feel if your church was required by law to allow them to use your auditorium? Under legalized homosexual marriage these things could happen.

It is not about leaving consenting adults alone and let them do what they want. It is about them forcing us to accept and even condone their choices. It is about forcing homosexuality in the face of Christians and daring them to say it’s wrong so you can sue them for hate speech.

The current homosexual marriage agenda has nothing to do with rights for homosexuals and everything to do with taking away the freedom of speech from Christians who disagree with the homosexual’s lifestyle.

Neither of those first answers deals with the issue. When dealing with the question posed by the lost on the issue pointing to God does not answer how is it hurting anyone or anything outsaide of religious beliefs. I was looking at a way to deal with them on their level and then after that God can be introduced.

Judith, I believe Tentmaker hits the nail on the head concerning your question. It is bad for society because they are attacking our religious freedoms with an attack on the sacred institution of “marriage” by attempting to redefine it. The proof of this is seen by simply asking them to give you ONE REASON, if all other rights were the same under the term “Civil Union” that they insist on calling their union a “marriage”. It is an in your face attack on the sanctity of a union that has its origins in the church of God and amounts to a demand of equality with God by trampling on the established definition of “marriage”.

Let me ask you a question: Just how is protecting the sanctity of the definition of 'marriage" discriminating against homosexuals? Seems more like they are the ones discriminating and stepping on things that others hold dear, the right to have meaning in a certain type of union, i.e. like the origins, meanings and definition of marriage? Please give me another reason for them to call their unions "marriage" if all other rights were the same, if it is not about discrimination on their part.

"Not hurting anything outside religious beliefs"!!! What about OUR constitution RIGHT to practice our religion without these attacks on an institution we hold dear by them attempting to redefining the term. Give me ONE OTHER "LEGITIMATE" REASON for them not be satisfied with another term, all other rights/things being equal, if it were not attempt of a spit in the face our God and a claim to to be equal with Him by denying US the sanctity of the meanings behind the institution of marriage!?
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
He's given you the scripture. It's now up to you to educate him as to how/why he's interpreting it incorrectly.

I don't see where he's quoted the Scripture. All he has said is what he believes the Scripture to say. So I'd like for Yeshua to please give me a chapter and verse for where Scripture says that the offense of Sodom was the homosexual offense so that we can get on the same page. o

Where is this Scripture that says that their great sin was lusting after strange flesh, for sexual peerversions, and for wanting to have sex with same sex?
 

pk4life

Member
marriage should be as God has already defined it as being, but it is also what the culture/society defines it as being!

Muslims can have up to 4 wives, so that would be legal in islamic nations!

Alright, so you tell me.

If God has defined marriage as one way.

And man is using the law to define marriage as another thing...

Who will you obey? You can't have it both ways, you have to choose one or the other right?
 

prophet

Active Member
Site Supporter
And where does the Bible clearly state this?

Jud 1:7
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

In case you hadn't read this...
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Jud 1:7
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

In case you hadn't read this...

I have read that. The last time I checked fornication applied to ANY sex outside of God-ordained marriage. So how do we deduce from this that the GREAT sin of Sodom was the homosexual offense?
 

prophet

Active Member
Site Supporter
I have read that. The last time I checked fornication applied to ANY sex outside of God-ordained marriage. So how do we deduce from this that the GREAT sin of Sodom was the homosexual offense?

"and going after strange flesh".

The example that He gave us, included a story of men so depraved, that they tried to rape Lot, as punishment for being judgemental against homosexuality.

You'd really like to see those of us who are judgemental of homosexuality punished, wouldn't you, Zaac?

My Brother, do not so wickedly!
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Jud 1:7
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

In case you hadn't read this...
Well you know that Jude!

He did nothing more than drive a wedge between the folks who need Jesus and the folks who are supposed to be introducing them to Him. He shouldn't have called them filthy dreamers, AND, he didn't show how the church was no better!
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
"and going after strange flesh".

The example that He gave us, included a story of men so depraved, that they tried to rape Lot, as punishment for being judgemental against homosexuality.

You'd really like to see those of us who are judgemental of homosexuality punished, wouldn't you, Zaac?

AND speaks to multiple sins. So what is it? The homosexual offense or a number of things?
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Well you know that Jude!

He did nothing more than drive a wedge between the folks who need Jesus and the folks who are supposed to be introducing them to Him. He shouldn't have called them filthy dreamers, AND, he didn't show how the church was no better!

What Jude says is consistent with what the rest of Scripture says. What Yeshua says is NOT.
 

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What Jude says is consistent with what the rest of Scripture says. What Yeshua says is NOT.

That's a matter of interpretation and understanding. It's easy to say Yeshua is wrong. Prove it.
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
That's a matter of interpretation and understanding. It's easy to say Yeshua is wrong. Prove it.

Ain't nothing to prove. He says one thing Scripture says another.:laugh: And if he doesn't, all he has to do is point me to the Scripture that's saying what he is. Jude has been brought up. And Jude doesn't say what he says.

This seems to once again be an attempt by folks in the church to make the homosexual offense the worst sin of them all. If God destroyed Sodom because of just the homosexual offense, He would have said so. He didn't.
 
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Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ain't nothing to prove. He says one thing Scripture says another.:laugh: And if he doesn't, all he has to do is point me to the Scripture that's saying what he is. Jude has been brought up. And Jude doesn't say what he says.

This seems to once again be an attempt by folks in the church to make the homosexual offense the worst sin of them all. If God destroyed Sodom because of just the homosexual offense, He would have said so. He didn't.

Look, I don't agree with Yeshua much. But what you're saying here is worse than what you're accusing Yeshua of. You have the opportunity to increase the knowledge and understanding of a fellow Christian--but you won't do it.

It almost seems that you don't mind condemning your brother in Christ, rather than searching out the scriptures with him and "sharpening" him.
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Look, I don't agree with Yeshua much. But what you're saying here is worse than what you're accusing Yeshua of. You have the opportunity to increase the knowledge and understanding of a fellow Christian--but you won't do it.

It almost seems that you don't mind condemning your brother in Christ, rather than searching out the scriptures with him and "sharpening" him.

Are you just trying to stir the pot? I asked him to show me where it says what he says. He keeps saying that Scripture says one particular sin was the reason. I don't see it and so I asked for clarification.

I haven't condemned anyone. I sought clarification that he didn't give.

Perhaps he has another Scripture in mind because the one in Jude speaks to sexual immorality and perversion. And last I checked that covers more than just the homosexual offense.

So if you've got some insight as to what Yeshua is seeing that says God destroyed Sodom because of just the homosexual offense, please assist in pointing it out to me.

He says :bible CLEARLY stated that their great sin was lusting after strange flesh, for sexual peerversions, and for wanting to have sex with same sex

Okay. Well show me where it says that. There is no mention in any version of the Bible that I have seen where God says He destroyed Sodom because of one particular sin or that HE makes mention of one GREAT sin in Sodom.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
It almost seems that you don't mind condemning your brother in Christ, rather than searching out the scriptures with him and "sharpening" him.
No almost about it. Zaac indicts God's elect and excuses Sodom.
 
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