Looking for info: Partial Preterism

[Lodic]

Kosmos - the Old Covenant 'arrangement':

20 Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing. Jn 18

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That's been driving me nuts, but I couldn't figure it out.

 

[Yeshua1]

Only pre-trib seems to affirm immanency. That said, if I'm wrong, and I see the 7 years starting, I'll definitely be crossing my fingers for the mid-trib.

The one thing you give up with those views is the doctrine of immanency. When the 7 years start, you can then count down 3.5 years to the rapture. The rapture can't come now or at any moment, because the tribulation period has to start first. While you don't know the day or hour, you know the rapture won't be today, and once the clock starts you will know the day.

With post-trib it gets a little strange because you're raptured, but then you make an immediate u-turn in the air and then return with Christ to immediately set up his millennial kingdom and celebrate the marriage supper. Maybe in that case it'll be a quick wedding in the air, I don't know. You also lose the doctrine of immanency with this view.

We also have that funny deal about in Daniel 1290 and then 1335 days, maybe that would be the time of the Marriage Supper?

 

[kyredneck]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That's been driving me nuts, but I couldn't figure it out.

Therein lies a real synonymy between the Old Covenant 'arrangement' and the Old Covenant 'age'.

 

[Lodic]

Therein lies a real synonymy between the Old Covenant 'arrangement' and the Old Covenant 'age'.

That's deep, Brother. There is obviously much more to Covenant Theology than I had imagined.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Kosmos - the Old Covenant 'arrangement':

20 Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing. Jn 18

That Kosmos can mean the Jewish world is correct. That it always, or even usually, does, I would deny. The word has a very large range of meanings.

Oikumene means the 'inhabited earth,' being the present passive participle of oikeo, 'to dwell.' It can mean the Roman world, as in Luke 2:1, but in Matthew 24:14 it definitely cannot, and in Luke 4:5; 21:26; Romans 10:18; Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 3:10; 13:3; 16:14, there is no reason to suppose that it does.

 

[David Kent]

Is the IFB forum to which you refer in the "Online Baptist" site?

I see you have been posting your nonsense on there recently. But if you keep posting non KJV quotes on there you are not likely to last long as some of us know.

Not trying to be smart-aleck

Since when?

If they saw the great trib, then Jesus' words in Matt. 24:30 are not true. Can't be both ways!

They didn't see it, they fled at Jesus' command to flee to the hills.

What will the AOD be? Daniel said it'll be when the man of sin sets up his image in the temple; Paul adds that, while in the temple, he will exalt himself above anything that's ever been worshipped, proclaiming himself to be God,

Daniel says nothing whatsoever about the image being set up in the temple.

These words of JESUS prove partial preterism wrong:
Matt. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The sun moon and stasr refer to the rulers of Jerusalen being overthrown, falling ftom power., The next thing that the Jews will see of the messiah is when he comes again.

The fact remains that preterism, both full & partial, is phony as a Ford Corvette. Unfortunately, you seem to have swallowed the hooey in the writings of some quacks.

Yes you keep repeating that nonesense, as well as Online Baptist and CF. It gets monotonous.

Paul adds that, while in the temple, he will exalt himself above anything that's ever been worshipped, proclaiming himself to be God,

A slight misquote again from you. But first we need to know what the temple is, Paul tells us plainly.

• 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
• 1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
• 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Paul uses the exact same term to describe the seat of the man of sin.

• 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The pope sat in the outer court of that temple till Martin Luther excommunicated him and did not include the RCC as part of the church

• 1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
• 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 

[David Kent]

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people

• Exodus 29:45 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.

Paul applies that promise to the church.

 

[prophecy70]

Partial preterism is as wrong as full preterism, for the simple reason that the prophesied events simply haven't yet happened. There's simply no getting around history and reality!

These words of JESUS prove partial preterism wrong:
Matt. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So we see Jesus said His return will be very shortly after the great trib ends. So, if the great trib was in 70 AD, Jesus is long-overdue!

Actually, the eschatological events have NOT yet happened. When they do, they'll fulfill Biblical prophecies about them exactly, to the letter.

PHONY AS A CHEVY MUSTANG

No, "this generation" hasn't yet come, unless it's this one. The great trib has NOT yet happened. Jesus said it'd be the worse set of disasters in history, and, since 70 AD, there have been many worse disasters than the Romans' destroying Jerusalem. Speaking strictly of the Jews, both Hadrian's expulsion of them from their land & the nazi holocaust were much-worse.

Matthew 11:16 But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates.

Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Matthew 12:42 The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.

Matthew 23:36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Matthew 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.


Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”


Luke 7:31 “To what then shall I compare the people of this generation, and what are they like?

Luke 11:29 When the crowds were increasing, he began to say, “This generation is an evil generation. It seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.

Luke 11:30 For as Jonah became a sign to the people of Nineveh, so will the Son of Man be to this generation.


Luke 11:32The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with thisgeneration and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Luke 11:50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation.

Luke 11:51
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation.

Luke 17:25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.


Notice anything? the Bible is pretty clear what "This Generation" Means!

 

[asterisktom]

Therein lies a real synonymy between the Old Covenant 'arrangement' and the Old Covenant 'age'.

Exactly. Understanding this is key to contexting many eschatological passages.

 

[asterisktom]

Question from the audience.

Why do you think Matthew uses kosmos then? I'm with ya on Luke and revelation but why is Matthew different?

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Matthew, among the four Gospel writers, was the one most directed toward the Jews. It makes perfect sense that he would use "kosmos" in their sense of the word.

For instance, Isaiah 24:21 and 40:26 help us to understand what "kosmos" meant in the Jewish context. They also help us understand "heaven and earth".

 

[blacksheep]

That Kosmos can mean the Jewish world is correct. That it always, or even usually, does, I would deny. The word has a very large range of meanings.

Oikumene means the 'inhabited earth,' being the present passive participle of oikeo, 'to dwell.' It can mean the Roman world, as in Luke 2:1, but in Matthew 24:14 it definitely cannot, and in Luke 4:5; 21:26; Romans 10:18; Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 3:10; 13:3; 16:14, there is no reason to suppose that it does.

You are correct. The context usually determines how to interpret the word WORLD and it's not always easy. There's several different Greek words for Earth and world.

 

[blacksheep]

I would have never thought a Baptist would be a partial or full Preterist. I'm actually very surprised about that.

 

[robycop3]

You holds those views because you are convinced by the "proofs" that you believe to be true; likewise, Preterists hold our views because we are convinced by the proofs and facts that we see. If there is any imagination or guesswork, it's from the Futurist view.

Except...There AREN'T any pret proofs!

 

[robycop3]

I claim to believe the Bible to be 100% true and inerrant. I believe the prophecies of the Olivet Discourse were fulfilled in exact detail according to Scripture.

Except...those that HAVEN'T yet been fulfilled.
You've been repeatedly asked to provide some proof that the eschatological events of the Olivet Discourse have already been fulfilled, and haven't shown us a thing.

 

[robycop3]

I would have never thought a Baptist would be a partial or full Preterist. I'm actually very surprised about that.

I'm very surprised that anyone who's studied world history at all could be a pret.

 

[robycop3]

Let's look at that passage again:

Matthew 24:30
And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

The first part of the verse mentions "the sign of the Son of Man" appearing in the sky, not the Son of Man appearing in the sky. Whatever that sign is, it is not the same thing as the Son of Man Himself.

The second part of the verse, simply states (in ancient Hebrew prophetic imagery) that the divine Jesus will bring powerful and glorious judgment upon that generation. Simply reasserting your view is not evidence.

Duu-h-h, maybe I'm just a dumb country hick, but "see the Son of man" looks pretty obvious to me.

 

[robycop3]

I really and truly don't mind you holding onto what you believe to be true. How strong would your convictions be if you didn't hold onto them? What I do mind is that you won't just drop it when it's obvious that we will not agree.

Still hoping you will see the TRUTH & realize preterism is wrong. The facts you've been presented with couldn't be any plainer.

One thing that we do agree on is that Gorship does realize that most Baptists reject all forms of Preterism. He would have to be blind to miss that. I won't drop it because I do understand the truth of this view. Hopefully, the Preterist view will continue to grow throughout the entire Christian world.

We'll just hafta see what Gorship says.

There's simply NO truth to preterism, and it WON'T grow. More & more people are actually studying history on their own, & realizing Preston, Gentry, etc. are quacks.

 

[robycop3]

I see you have been posting your nonsense on there recently. But if you keep posting non KJV quotes on there you are not likely to last long as some of us know.



Since when?



They didn't see it, they fled at Jesus' command to flee to the hills.



Daniel says nothing whatsoever about the image being set up in the temple.



The sun moon and stasr refer to the rulers of Jerusalen being overthrown, falling ftom power., The next thing that the Jews will see of the messiah is when he comes again.



Yes you keep repeating that nonesense, as well as Online Baptist and CF. It gets monotonous.



A slight misquote again from you. But first we need to know what the temple is, Paul tells us plainly.

• 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
• 1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
• 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Paul uses the exact same term to describe the seat of the man of sin.

• 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The pope sat in the outer court of that temple till Martin Luther excommunicated him and did not include the RCC as part of the church

• 1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
• 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The nonsense is coming from YOU & your side, small as it is. You're still trying to reduce "inconvenient" Scriptures to symbolic status & inventing goofy meanings for them as you go. Well, it WON'T WORK! Most of see right thru that smokescreen.

 

[robycop3]

PHONY AS A CHEVY MUSTANG




Matthew 11:16 But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates.

Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Matthew 12:42 The queen of the South will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.

Matthew 23:36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Matthew 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.


Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”


Luke 7:31 “To what then shall I compare the people of this generation, and what are they like?

Luke 11:29 When the crowds were increasing, he began to say, “This generation is an evil generation. It seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.

Luke 11:30 For as Jonah became a sign to the people of Nineveh, so will the Son of Man be to this generation.


Luke 11:32The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with thisgeneration and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Luke 11:50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation.

Luke 11:51
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation.

Luke 17:25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.


Notice anything? the Bible is pretty clear what "This Generation" Means!

Notice the eschatological events HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET? So much for your guess as to what certain Scriptures mean!

And the "days of vengeance" DID fall on that generation of Jews. But a coupla generations later, the Jews received a much-greater punishment, beginning in 135-136 AD when they were expelled from their land, a punishment that climaxed with the nazi holocaust.

 

[blacksheep]

I see you have been posting your nonsense on there recently. But if you keep posting non KJV quotes on there you are not likely to last long as some of us know.

Since when?

They didn't see it, they fled at Jesus' command to flee to the hills.

That was in response to what Robycop said here...
"If they saw the great trib, then Jesus' words in Matt. 24:30 are not true. Can't be both ways!"
David, they didn't see what? The tribulation or the Lord's return?

MT. 24:30...


Daniel says nothing whatsoever about the image being set up in the temple.



The sun moon and stasr refer to the rulers of Jerusalen being overthrown, falling ftom power., The next thing that the Jews will see of the messiah is when he comes again.



Yes you keep repeating that nonesense, as well as Online Baptist and CF. It gets monotonous.



A slight misquote again from you. But first we need to know what the temple is, Paul tells us plainly.

• 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
• 1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
• 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Paul uses the exact same term to describe the seat of the man of sin.

• 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The pope sat in the outer court of that temple till Martin Luther excommunicated him and did not include the RCC as part of the church

• 1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
• 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.