Lordship necessary for salvation

[John of Japan]

No you didn't; and I hope that you don't believe that yourself. Please tell me that you do not think that when the Bible speaks of Jesus as King of Kings that it could mean anything similar to a king with no power- for goodness sake, not one powerlessly held in prison. Please tell me that you believe that even when Jesus was on the cross, his Sovereign power of the universe was still in tact. Please tell me that the Kingship of Jesus Christ means more to you than the debased position you seem to enunciate here- that you know it means he is SOVEREIGN above all. You do believe that is what Jesus being KING means in the Bible don't you??

Sorry, as a linguist I go with the meaning of the word as used in a particular language. Certainly Christ is King and Christ is Lord, but they are not and never will be synonyms.

And I'm really disappointed with your phrase "debased position." Simply because I insist on what I believe to be the normal meaning of words, I have a "debased position?" Do you not believe that Christ "made himself of no reputation" and was "found in fashion as a man" and "humbled himself" until He actually died on the cross? Is that a "debased position"? And that because of that God the Father gave Him a name "above every other name?" (Phil. 2:5-11) That's what I believe about Christ, exactly what the Bible says. Christ Himself emptied Himself (the kenosis) on the cross.

Now, since you obviously believe that king and lord are synonyms and I obviously do not, and because of that you say I have a "debased position" about my precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ simply because I won't agree with you on the matter, I will henceforth leave this subject alone (king and lord) and answer no more.

My position about my precious Lord and Savior as King and Lord is far more detailed and deep than I can describe here on a simple Internet forum, and you've not begun to understand it if you think I have a debased position.

 

[John of Japan]

Surrender is necessary for salvation. It is not possible without the process of regeneration. It is the essence of repentance. It is a confession that no one but Jesus is Lord. This is an inward resolve in the heart of the believer. Caesar is not Lord, I am not Lord- Jesus is Lord!

Trust is surrender. I must surrender something into the care and control of another if I am to trust them with it. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRULY TRUST SOMEBODY WITH SOMETHING IF I DO NOT SURRENDER IT TO THEIR CONTROL- UTTERLY, ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY, UNDENIABLY IMPOSSIBLE. IMPOSSIBLE.

You've said all of this already, but all you will do to prove it is list a bunch of verses saying that Christ is Lord, something I completely agree with.

Think about the Geico commercial with the CEO and the "trust game" with the Gecko. He said, "TRUST is key with Geico." then he fell backwards expecting the gecko to catch him. What was he illustrating? The fact that you KNOW and EVERYBODY knows- that trust is surrender. I trust you so I put my falling body completely under your control and care. I cease to be in control of my well being the moment I enact my trust by falling. You are now in control instead of me. That's the point of the TRUST game.

Sorry, I live in Japan and can't see American commercials.

To be truly saved one must be fully persuaded that Jesus is fully able to save. The only way one can be convinced of that is if he understands the Sovereign Power of Jesus as Lord. Why is Jesus fully able to save? because he is LORD of all. He is Master of the grave, conqueror of Calvary, Creator and Sustainer of the whole universe- He who is Lord of all is more than able to save to the uttermost those that trust him!!! He will save me, thank God, if I will surrender my soul and being into his control and care!! but the only ones he ever saves are those who TRUST him- those who SURRENDER their being into his control and care.

That is all the Bible promises to the seeker. Jesus came to be the LORD of them that believe. This should not be rejected but rejoiced over. This should not be denied but embraced. This should not be balked at but proclaimed from the rooftop- UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, REJOICE!! JESUS IS LORD AND WILL SAVE ALL WHO TRUST HIM!! JAPAN, REJOICE, JESUS IS LORD AND WILL SAVE ALL WHO WILL TRUST HIM!! HALLELUJAH TO THE LORD OF GLORY! IF THOU SHALT CONFESS WITH THY MOUTH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST... THOU SHALT BE SAVED!!!

You're preaching now, not debating. This is a debate forum. Prove from the Bible that people are commanded to confess Christ as Lord in order to be saved. The only Scripture you've given that comes near to proving this is Rom. 10:9, and you never answered any of my Greek analysis of that.

 

[John of Japan]

Luke 2427 has said that the only place that gives my view of the Gospel is 1 Cor. 15:1-8, but apparently Paul's view of the Gospel is not good enough. We must look other places in Scripture to find the true Gospel. Let's do that.

Consider the Great Commission, give five times in 5 different ways in the Bible. Matthew simply says to go and "teach all nations," not giving the content of the message. Mark is better, using the term Gospel and talking about believing (but not about confessing Christ as Lord). John says we are sent as Jesus was sent by the Father, but gives no content for the message. Acts simply says that the apostles were to be witnesses for Christ.

Ironically, it is the version of the Great Commission in Luke 24 (thinking of Luke 2427's BB name :smilewinkgrin where we hit paydirt. There Christ gives the specific content of the message: "46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things."

This is the Gospel, exactly the message that Paul gave in 1 Cor. 15:1-8. And Christ nowhere says anything in this or the other Great Commissions about confessing Christ as Lord. (And He is Lord, make no mistake about that--I believe that with all my heart.) Furthermore, throughout the book of Acts, Luke records how over and over the apostles and others gave that exact message: Christ died for our sins and rose again the third day, so repent! Yet nowhere in the whole book of Acts (the only place in the NT where we learn the history of how the early church gave the message) do we find any apostle, deacon or preacher telling people to confess Christ as Lord for salvation!!