Lordship Salvation and children

[Yeshua1]

You are equating 2 different things. The difficulty is in grasping the message due to love of sin and hardness of heart, not the message. The promises to Abraham are needed to be understood for salvation? Thats the first I heard that one. There are believers that dont understand those things. Salvation is through faith...not understanding all doctrines

the saling message of the Apostles was that you must beieve that jesus came to earth as God incarnated, died to atone for your sins, died in place of yourself, and that you beieve that God raised him from the dead for your salvation!

ALl the rest is important, but what we learn about after the lord saves us by his grace and mercy!

 

[kyredneck]

28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mt 11

I do not advocate a simple gospel. If it was simple, it wouldn't be foolish or scandalous. If it were simple, it wouldn't be the difficult path. If it were simple, it wouldn't be hard to enter the kingdom. These are all statements about the gospel.

I don't know about 'Lordship Salvation'; is this what the theology makes the gospel to be? Complicated, difficult, hard?

Not to mention that the gospel entails so much, from Abraham's promise to the knowledge of God's glory to the redemption of creation. The gospel, nay, the Bible is a complex story. To simplify is to miss the grandeur of God's good news. I don't want people to know the bare minimum. I want them to know a comprehensive gospel the engages the hearers w/ all facets of the diamond of the gospel.

I agree, the Bible is a multiple faceted gem that could be studied for fifty lifetimes and still would one hardly scratch the surface of it. But that's exactly what God wants us to do, let the word of Christ dwell in us richly.

But the religion of Jesus Christ is as simple as it gets.

 

[DHK]

DHK,
Salvation is eternal and sanctification is as much a part of and result of grace as any other part of salvation.You cannot bring it up and fragment it.

"My sheep hear my voice and I know them. I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
I became one of his sheep. I was given eternal life at that point in time. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name sake.
That is after I have already become a sheep. Sanctification is a process that can only start after the sheep is born. There is that one important necessity of birth that comes first. We call it the new birth. It takes place at the same time as salvation--simultaneously. It is an event not a process. Sanctification is the process which follows regeneration.

I do not believe in OSAS.....I believe in the biblical teaching that is described as perserverance of the saints....

To persevere is to work for your salvation. My salvation is kept in the palm of Jesus. I do not persevere; my salvation is rather "preserved."

Sanctification and discipleship are all part of salvation. It is God's work from start to finish.

Not positionally it isn't. I was justified by faith and faith alone. That is when I was saved, and that is the subject of this thread. Why are you trying to confuse with another subject unless you truly believe that salvation is by works. Sanctification comes after salvation.
"Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
There is the subject of this thread.
How is Christ Lord at the moment of salvation?

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

This is perserverance of the Saviour working in us.....He is the Author,and finisher of our faith....Not just one moment in time...it is eternal.

He is the author and finisher of my faith. I put my faith in Him at the moment of my salvation. That is when I believed in him for the forgiveness of my sins and was granted eternal life. He keeps me; he keeps my salvation "until he comes again." That is eternal security not perseverance. I am not the one persevering here. Christ is the one keeping my salvation.

I do not know why you struggle with this...{ I suspect it is more bad fruit of dispensational thought and approach to wrongly DIVIDE the truth}

I have no struggle. My salvation is in Christ. I have no doubts. He that has Christ has life; he that has not has not life. I have Christ. That is OSAS. It is belief in the simple gospel of Christ.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I do his will. That is the result of being justified by faith, something I did long ago when I put my trust in Christ. Not that I could justify myself, but that God justified me when I put my faith in him. It was a one time event. There is no process here.

 

[Greektim]

the saling message of the Apostles was that you must beieve that jesus came to earth as God incarnated, died to atone for your sins, died in place of yourself, and that you beieve that God raised him from the dead for your salvation!

ALl the rest is important, but what we learn about after the lord saves us by his grace and mercy!

I disagree. The salient message is that Jesus is Lord. That implies all that you said plus more. That is why it is the confession of the mouth in Rom. 10.

And, if what you say is true, then Jesus didn't preach the gospel as you defined it. His gospel was about God's rule and repentance (inaugurated w/ his death and resurrection certainly).

 

[Revmitchell]

I disagree. The salient message is that Jesus is Lord. That implies all that you said plus more. That is why it is the confession of the mouth in Rom. 10.

And, if what you say is true, then Jesus didn't preach the gospel as you defined it. His gospel was about God's rule and repentance (inaugurated w/ his death and resurrection certainly).

AAmen!.........................

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

"My sheep hear my voice and I know them. I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

1]I became one of his sheep. I was given eternal life at that point in time.
2]That is after I have already become a sheep.
3] Sanctification is a process that can only start after the sheep is born.
4]I put my faith
5] something I did long ago when I put my trus

t

You did all this??? You do not give glory to God.

In my understanding and life:
God draws, God quickens, God grants repentance unto life,God gives a new heart,God saves me

There is that one important necessity of birth that comes first. We call it the new birth. It takes place at the same time as salvation--simultaneously. It is an event not a process. Sanctification is the process which follows regeneration.

No one said anything different???

To persevere is to work for your salvation. My salvation is kept in the palm of Jesus. I do not persevere; my salvation is rather "preserved."

If someone does not perservere they are not God's child....

You keep saying...I ,I I did this< I put My faith, I became a sheep....
A person , does not-"BECOME A SHEEP- God already has His sheep that belong to Jesus.
So you saved yourself??? Then you give it to Jesus to hold onto it???

This is an unbiblical falsehood;You say many things, but they do not match this-
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth

Peter did not equate them with a works gospel or sanctification...he taught that these "things" accompany salvation.

Not positionally it isn't. I was justified by faith and faith alone. That is when I was saved, and that is the subject of this thread. Why are you trying to confuse with another subject unless you truly believe that salvation is by works. Sanctification comes after salvation.

Sanctification started before the world was.Believers were saved and perfected forever at the cross......The gospel applied by the Spirit giving a new heart at regeneration makes manifest who the Sheep are.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

"Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
There is the subject of this thread.
How is Christ Lord at the moment of salvation?

Jesus is Lord of ALL...right now.Acts 2 declares it so, no matter what you say....

4 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

He is LORD...you do not "make" Jesus Lord...He is Lord.



He is the author and finisher of my faith. I put my faith in Him at the moment of my salvation. That is when I believed in him for the forgiveness of my sins and was granted eternal life. He keeps me; he keeps my salvation "until he comes again."

That is eternal security not perseverance. I am not the one persevering here. Christ is the one keeping my salvation.

Believers are kept by the Power of God.All such believers have fruit in the life, good works ......not in order to be saved, but because they are saved.

I have no struggle. My salvation is in Christ. I have no doubts. He that has Christ has life; he that has not has not life. I have Christ

.

That is good DHK.

That is OSAS.

OSAS is a false teaching to accompany easy believism, and denies sanctification and holiness in the life as essential, that is why it is error.

I do his will. That is the result of being justified by faith, something I did long ago when I put my trust in Christ. Not that I could justify myself, but that God justified me when I put my faith in him. It was a one time event. There is no process here.

Again, you cannot fragment the process...it is linked.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

DHK
t

You did all this??? You do not give glory to God.

In my understanding and life:
God draws, God quickens, God grants repentance unto life,God gives a new heart,God saves me





No one said anything different???


If someone does not perservere they are not God's child....

You keep saying...I ,I I did this< I put My faith, I became a sheep....
A person , does not-"BECOME A SHEEP- God already has His sheep that belong to Jesus.
So you saved yourself??? Then you give it to Jesus to hold onto it???

This is an unbiblical falsehood;You say many things, but they do not match this-
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth

Peter did not equate them with a works gospel or sanctification...he taught that these "things" accompany salvation.



Sanctification started before the world was.Believers were saved and perfected forever at the cross......The gospel applied by the Spirit giving a new heart at regeneration makes manifest who the Sheep are.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.





Jesus is Lord of ALL...right now.Acts 2 declares it so, no matter what you say....

4 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

He is LORD...you do not "make" Jesus Lord...He is Lord.



He is the author and finisher of my faith. I put my faith in Him at the moment of my salvation. That is when I believed in him for the forgiveness of my sins and was granted eternal life. He keeps me; he keeps my salvation "until he comes again."



Believers are kept by the Power of God.All such believers have fruit in the life, good works ......not in order to be saved, but because they are saved.

.

That is good DHK.



OSAS is a false teaching to accompany easy believism, and denies sanctification and holiness in the life as essential, that is why it is error.




Again, you cannot fragment the process...it is linked.

Icon, could you please distinguish between OSAS and perseverance in your thought? If you have already, and I missed it, I apologize for asking my question.

 

[DHK]

DHK
You did all this??? You do not give glory to God.

I do; do you?

You believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Romans 10:9 That if you shalt confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him from the dead, you shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart you believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth yourconfession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
--There is a lot of YOU (SELF) in those verses, in order that YOU must be saved? What of it, Icon?

In my understanding and life:
God draws, God quickens, God grants repentance unto life,God gives a new heart,God saves me

God draws and God quickens.
But God is not going to do the repenting for you Icon. You have to do that by yourself.
Except YOU repent you shall likewise perish.

If someone does not perservere they are not God's child....

The Bible doesn't say that.
The Bible says if one does not have the Spirit of God, they are none of His.

You keep saying...I ,I I did this< I put My faith, I became a sheep....
A person , does not-"BECOME A SHEEP- God already has His sheep that belong to Jesus.

I was born a sheep, when I was born again. I was born again when I trusted Christ as my Savior. I can tell you when that happened. Can you tell me when that happened to you? The only thing I did was put my faith in Christ. Faith is not a work. Salvation is not of works. But if you must persevere, then your salvation is by works.
[qutoe]So you saved yourself??? Then you give it to Jesus to hold onto it???[/quote]
Salvation is of God. I did nothing to merit it.
But if you must persevere in a process then you have a religion with no salvation at all. I was justified by faith. I can tell you when that event happened.

This is an unbiblical falsehood;You say many things, but they do not match this-
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth

Peter did not equate them with a works gospel or sanctification...he taught that these "things" accompany salvation.

Again, you are describing all the things you must do to keep your salvation. It is no different than the Catholics. It is a works based salvation.

Sanctification started before the world was.Believers were saved and perfected forever at the cross......The gospel applied by the Spirit giving a new heart at regeneration makes manifest who the Sheep are.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

So what. God knows all things from the beginning to the end. That has nothing to do with price of tea in China.

Jesus is Lord of ALL...right now.Acts 2 declares it so, no matter what you say....

I never said he wasn't. But some do.

He is LORD...you do not "make" Jesus Lord...He is Lord.

I don't disagree.

He is the author and finisher of my faith. I put my faith in Him at the moment of my salvation. That is when I believed in him for the forgiveness of my sins and was granted eternal life. He keeps me; he keeps my salvation "until he comes again."

That is exactly what I said.

Believers are kept by the Power of God.All such believers have fruit in the life, good works ......not in order to be saved, but because they are saved.

I never said any different.

OSAS is a false teaching to accompany easy believism, and denies sanctification and holiness in the life as essential, that is why it is error.

"My sheep hear my voice and I know them. I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish."
That is OSAS, also called eternal security.

Again, you cannot fragment the process...it is linked.

Salvation comes first. Sanctification comes after salvation. There must be a separation, otherwise there would be no such thing as a "Christian walk," would there? First you have to be a Christian!

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, could you please distinguish between OSAS and perseverance in your thought? If you have already, and I missed it, I apologize for asking my question.

The teaching of OSAS is trying to water down the biblical teaching of the absolute necessity of holiness in the life;see here;

http://www.fwponline.cc/v16n2/v16n2corner.html

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/antinomianism.htm

Some OSAS teaqchers have proclaimed that once you profess faith ,you can never be lost, no matter what you do ,or how you live...RB thieme has said that in print.

here on biblical perserverance

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc17.html

This is this biblical teaching that shows that although we are saved all of grace....it is a grace that works!

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

I do; do you?

You believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Romans 10:9 That if you shalt confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him from the dead, you shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart you believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth yourconfession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
--There is a lot of YOU (SELF) in those verses, in order that YOU must be saved? What of it, Icon?

DHK......all believers repent, all believers ....believe and trust,all confess Christ.

I only did these things when God drew me unto Himself and enabled me to do it.Without Divine power working in and through the gospel, God granting me repentance unto life, giving me a new heart...i would never have even looked at a bible, much less believed.

The same is true for you DHK, only you do not seem to want to acknowledge it yet.:wavey:

God draws and God quickens.
But God is not going to do the repenting for you Icon. You have to do that by yourself.
Except YOU repent you shall likewise perish.

Correct DHK, except it is God who grants repentance unto life as I just mentioned to you.


Next I said:If someone does not perservere they are not God's child....
you said;

The Bible doesn't say that.
The Bible says if one does not have the Spirit of God, they are none of His.

Lets take a look...I agree completely with Romans 8:9

Now does the bible indicate that if someone does not perservere in the faith and holiness that they are not a child of God ,but instead a lost reprobate, an apostate, a goat????

Let me offer a few scriptures for your examination DHK....I will highlight the portions that bear directly on this

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:



20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.




5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.


24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

This post was big, so i will break it in sections, but must drive more soon.

 

[Herald]

The teaching of OSAS is trying to water down the biblical teaching of the absolute necessity of holiness in the life;see here;

http://www.fwponline.cc/v16n2/v16n2corner.html

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/antinomianism.htm

Some OSAS teaqchers have proclaimed that once you profess faith ,you can never be lost, no matter what you do ,or how you live...RB thieme has said that in print.

here on biblical perserverance

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc17.html

This is this biblical teaching that shows that although we are saved all of grace....it is a grace that works!

Good points. OSAS is antinomian at heart (although antinomianism has different degrees).

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

I was born a sheep, when I was born again. I was born again when I trusted Christ as my Savior. I can tell you when that happened.

Many people say that and yet Jesus said:
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

We all have a rough idea of when God was drawing us, but an exact time is a stretch.....

Yes i can tell you about being alone in my house so convicted of my sin that I thought God was going to take my very breath away,and I asked Him to have mercy on me. or going to churches trying to find one that believed the bible, or my asking the pastor about baptism.

I did not have a stop watch and was not aware of the ordo salutis at that time.

You say it the way you do, because You think what you did saves you, even though God brought you to that place....I get what you mean DHK:thumbs:

Can you tell me when that happened to you?

I just said the way it happened.

The only thing I did was put my faith in Christ.

As far as you know that is what happened, biblically something else happened.

Faith is not a work.

The way you describe it , it is....You did something, you keep saying how You put your faith....I have never seen you say what Jesus did, by the Spirit,and yet we both know this is the way it really happens.

Salvation is not of works

.
Correct,and agreed.

But if you must persevere, then your salvation is by works.

DHK- If I were Benjamin, Webdog, or Skan,[hope he is doing ok?]
At this point I would pause here to announce...
strawman, or red herring.....Benjamin would be so proud of me.

DHK....I do not believe salvation or sanctification is by, or because of works.You cannot produce ONE reputable Calvinist who writes, teaches, or preaches this. Not one. Yet all believe what the bible says about working out our salvation with fear and trembling, seeking holiness diligently.

A salvation by grace works in every phase of our daily life,as God works in us.

[qutoe]So you saved yourself??? Then you give it to Jesus to hold onto it???

Salvation is of God. I did nothing to merit it.[/QUOTE]

Okay ...we agree here also,nice-

But if you must persevere in a process then you have a religion with no salvation at all

.

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I was justified by faith. I can tell you when that event happened.

You know the approximate time perhaps.

Again, you are describing all the things you must do to keep your salvation. It is no different than the Catholics. It is a works based salvation.

I never have said that at all.That is the part you misunderstand.

We work and continue to work all through our christian lives...because we are saved:thumbs:This should not be such a struggle for you.

Salvation comes first. Sanctification comes after salvation. There must be a separation, otherwise there would be no such thing as a "Christian walk," would there? First you have to be a Christian!

I have no problem explaining about the different parts of sanctification.

 

[Iconoclast]

Good points. OSAS is antinomian at heart (although antinomianism has different degrees).

Yes Herald this is at the root of much of the struggle with sanctification and those who say that Jesus is not Lord of every area of the life and universe.

Many jump at the idea of OSAS because they have not studied it out biblically, and it sounds good as a half truth that it is.

others with libertine tendencies what to "push" the envelop and play fast and loose with their profession as if they were not brought with a price.
9 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

The teaching of OSAS is trying to water down the biblical teaching of the absolute necessity of holiness in the life;see here;

http://www.fwponline.cc/v16n2/v16n2corner.html

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/antinomianism.htm

Some OSAS teaqchers have proclaimed that once you profess faith ,you can never be lost, no matter what you do ,or how you live...RB thieme has said that in print.

here on biblical perserverance

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc17.html

This is this biblical teaching that shows that although we are saved all of grace....it is a grace that works!

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Yeshua1]

The teaching of OSAS is trying to water down the biblical teaching of the absolute necessity of holiness in the life;see here;

http://www.fwponline.cc/v16n2/v16n2corner.html

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/antinomianism.htm

Some OSAS teaqchers have proclaimed that once you profess faith ,you can never be lost, no matter what you do ,or how you live...RB thieme has said that in print.

here on biblical perserverance

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc17.html

This is this biblical teaching that shows that although we are saved all of grace....it is a grace that works!

That would liek saying that lordship salvation people ONLY hold sinless perfection can save you though!

truth is that eternal security is taught thru the NT scriptures, from words of jesus and Apsotles, and that it isgiven in order to give us "peace of Mind' that salvation is indeed finished by the Cross of chrsit, and frees us up tryingto keep[ burden of the laqw, and to walk as new mewn in the holy spirit!

And that would be a baptist who holds to DoG, who also knows that jesus secured me forever, for that was/is part of his work as my high priest, and the HS sealed within me until that Day!

 

[Yeshua1]

Good points. OSAS is antinomian at heart (although antinomianism has different degrees).

if that was the truth, paul taught it!

Actually, He got SAMEr response tto the grace of the gospel as you referenced here, to good to fully believe!

 

[Iconoclast]

That would liek saying that lordship salvation people ONLY hold sinless perfection can save you though!

[

It has nothing to do with sinless perfection.

Carnal professors are not "eternally secure"

 

[DHK]

That would liek saying that lordship salvation people ONLY hold sinless perfection can save you though!

[

It has nothing to do with sinless perfection.

Carnal professors are not "eternally secure"

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Let's take a look at this passage.
First, Paul calls them "brethren."
I will take Paul's word over yours. They were believers in the Lord, eternally secure in the hand of God. It is their position before God that counts. They were justified by faith. They were saved individuals.

Now for some reason, lack of proper study, perhaps, they had failed to progress in their spiritual walk with the Lord. That is what we find throughout this epistle. Paul addresses one problem after another. The key verse is found in 1Cor.7a.
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:
--He is addressing the problems in the Corinthian church that they had written him about.

One of the problems is their spiritual growth. They should be on a different spiritual plane. They should be able to digest "meat" by now, but they are only able to take "spiritual milk," still the elementary truths of Christianity. That in no way makes them unsaved. It indicates that their growth as Christians, their progress, is not as fast as it ought to be. It is being hindered, no doubt by the things that he has addressed in this letter: false teachers, division, the love of wisdom, the attack on Paul as an Apostle, taking one another to court, allowing sexual sin to remain in the church, etc. Their growth had been stunted by such things.
That does not mean that the church is made up of non-believers.
It simply means that they are not where they should be spiritually; and thus are carnal. Paul calls them "carnal Christians."

Again, I will not deny the Word of God here, and I will take Paul's word over yours. He should have been able to give them meat but was only able to feed them milk. They were carnal--carnal Christians. That is the only meaning one can get out of this passage. It cannot be denied.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Let's take a look at this passage.
First, Paul calls them "brethren."
I will take Paul's word over yours. They were believers in the Lord, eternally secure in the hand of God. It is their position before God that counts. They were justified by faith. They were saved individuals.

Now for some reason, lack of proper study, perhaps, they had failed to progress in their spiritual walk with the Lord. That is what we find throughout this epistle. Paul addresses one problem after another. The key verse is found in 1Cor.7a.
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:
--He is addressing the problems in the Corinthian church that they had written him about.

One of the problems is their spiritual growth. They should be on a different spiritual plane. They should be able to digest "meat" by now, but they are only able to take "spiritual milk," still the elementary truths of Christianity. That in no way makes them unsaved. It indicates that their growth as Christians, their progress, is not as fast as it ought to be. It is being hindered, no doubt by the things that he has addressed in this letter: false teachers, division, the love of wisdom, the attack on Paul as an Apostle, taking one another to court, allowing sexual sin to remain in the church, etc. Their growth had been stunted by such things.
That does not mean that the church is made up of non-believers.
It simply means that they are not where they should be spiritually;

Dhk I can agree with what you said up to here...for the most part....

but then you go off here:

and thus are carnal. Paul calls them "carnal Christians."

No.....he says they are behaving as carnal....as the unsaved would in this one sin. He does not say....they are "carnal" christians, which is an oxymoron.

If you would have listened to the sermons I offered explaining the greek words and tenses you would know this,

Again, I will not deny the Word of God here,

but....you just did:wavey:

and I will take Paul's word over yours. He should have been able to give them meat but was only able to feed them milk.

correct...

They were carnal--carnal Christians. That is the only meaning one can get out of this passage. It cannot be denied.

no...many understand it properly,and if you want to, I would listen to those sermons and see for yourself

 

[Yeshua1]

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Let's take a look at this passage.
First, Paul calls them "brethren."
I will take Paul's word over yours. They were believers in the Lord, eternally secure in the hand of God. It is their position before God that counts. They were justified by faith. They were saved individuals.

Now for some reason, lack of proper study, perhaps, they had failed to progress in their spiritual walk with the Lord. That is what we find throughout this epistle. Paul addresses one problem after another. The key verse is found in 1Cor.7a.
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:
--He is addressing the problems in the Corinthian church that they had written him about.

One of the problems is their spiritual growth. They should be on a different spiritual plane. They should be able to digest "meat" by now, but they are only able to take "spiritual milk," still the elementary truths of Christianity. That in no way makes them unsaved. It indicates that their growth as Christians, their progress, is not as fast as it ought to be. It is being hindered, no doubt by the things that he has addressed in this letter: false teachers, division, the love of wisdom, the attack on Paul as an Apostle, taking one another to court, allowing sexual sin to remain in the church, etc. Their growth had been stunted by such things.
That does not mean that the church is made up of non-believers.
It simply means that they are not where they should be spiritually; and thus are carnal. Paul calls them "carnal Christians."

Again, I will not deny the Word of God here, and I will take Paul's word over yours. He should have been able to give them meat but was only able to feed them milk. They were carnal--carnal Christians. That is the only meaning one can get out of this passage. It cannot be denied.

that last part of the message you quoted was icon, about carnal christians and professing faith!

think our friend icon also holds that once saved, the new nature replaces old nature, so that iswhy there cannot be any carnal chritians!