That's what I said here:
"We are temporally delivered from our former vain manner of life through obedience to the gospel."
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Lordship Salvation Defended
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That's what I said here:
"We are temporally delivered from our former vain manner of life through obedience to the gospel."
PreachTony
Active Member
Just curious, KYR, (and you may have answered this before, and if so, just point me in the direction of the answer and I'll thank you for it) but if there is no human input, then what do the scriptures mean when they say that Jesus stands at the door and knocks, and that He will come in to any man who opens the door? What do they mean when they say "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord" and then teach that in order to call upon Him they must first hear of Him through the preached Word of God?
Again, if you've already answered a question similar to that, I would appreciate a point in the right direction to find it. Thanks.
Brother Icon, what happens, then, to the non-elect infants? Are these infants really held accountable to punishment for sin? I know Romans 5:13 says "sin is not imputed when there is no law." One interpretation of that verse, requiring a bit of backwards inference, would indicate that, since an infant cannot understand or even remotely attempt to uphold the Law, then the Law really cannot be imputed to them, therefore they cannot be held accountable for sin. (**I know this is a bit off OP, but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around some of the issues of these doctrines.**)
PT
Do we know if there are any non elect infants?
All sinned in Adam at one point in time.....the fall. All persons are hell deserving sinners...rom3:23
Anyone who is saved has been elected by God to salvation before the world was...2 tim1:9
There does not exist a saved non elect person.....
You are not understanding that verse in Romans.....it teaches the opposite of what you are suggesting.
Do we know if there are any non elect infants?
All sinned in Adam at one point in time.....the fall. All persons are hell deserving sinners...rom3:23
Anyone who is saved has been elected by God to salvation before the world was...2 tim1:9
There does not exist a saved non elect person.....
You are not understanding that verse in Romans.....it teaches the opposite of what you are suggesting.
Yes....that is why we agree.....alot:thumbs::thumbs:
PreachTony
Active Member
Which is why I noted that one interpretation required backwards inference. I didn't mean to give off the idea that it was my interpretation.
I have told you this before:
"It's impossible for us to relate concerning 'salvation' when you have only the eternal aspect of our salvation in mind."
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2173578#post2173578
There isn't any human input with the heavenly birth.
19 As many as I love, I reprove and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev 3
I know many here place little relevance on audience relevance in the scriptures, but who do you think He is addressing here? The unregenerate? No. He's addressing those He loves in the wayward church at Laodicea.
A couple questions (and I promise I'm not cutting you short, this could lead into a good discussion):
Brethren, my heart`s desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved. Ro 10:1
Do you take that as Paul desiring and asking for Israel to 'go to heaven'?
13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? even as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they did not all hearken to the glad tidings. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
18 But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10
Paul says that they verily DID hear. When did Israel hear the good tidings, even to the ends of the earth?
Do you ever call upon the Lord to save you? I won't hesitate anymore to ask for His deliverance from times of trouble or distress. Nothing is too small for Him. Do a word search for 'save me' with your electronic Bible and see what you get.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Given all the above noise about "Lordship Salvation" I note the following Scripture:
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Given that and numerous supporting Scripture it seems to me that "Lordship Salvation" simply means we are, in accord with Scripture, not just obligated but "ordained" to give evidence of the Saving Grace of God in our life. God through the Apostle John tells us:
1 John 2:3-6
3. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
I would also note that God through the Apostle Paul reminds us:
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Given that and numerous supporting Scripture it seems to me that "Lordship Salvation" simply means we are, in accord with Scripture, not just obligated but "ordained" to give evidence of the Saving Grace of God in our life. God through the Apostle John tells us:
1 John 2:3-6
3. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
I would also note that God through the Apostle Paul reminds us:
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
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No, but I feel pretty wretched sometimes…
Well, I’ve certainly learned to want to avoid His disapproval from being chastised on several occasions over the years.
No, He expects me to sow to the Spirit rather than sow to the flesh.
Praise God! He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.
Christ freed us. The gospel enlightens us to that.
We have been reconciled. The gospel enlightens us to that.
Not by works done to earn merit. But works are very important, we are after all ultimately going to be judged by our deeds.
By ‘following salvation’ I’m assuming you mean ‘after conversion’. I don't know what you mean by 'a variety of ways and means', but, our temporal ongoing salvation comes about by sanctification from the Spirit within, and right thinking:
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 whereunto he called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thess 2
I think it was webdog that referred to it as ‘front loaded works’. I would think that approach would discourage and frighten many of His lambs away.
We are told to be careful of how we use that freedom.
OK, but wretched man that I am, I still have reservations about considering myself to be a disciple of Christ.
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For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 Jn 5:3
Excellent germane scripture! Good job briar hopper!
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I will Amen that and raise you one!
Matthew 11:28-30
28. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Oh no! You're not one of those evil poker players are you? Purge out that wickedness from your life! Abstain from all appearance of evil! :laugh:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I could not play three card rummy!:tonofbricks:
True story: When I was a kid, ten or so, my Mom, brother, Dad, and I fell into a nightly routine of playing Rummy together (with traditional playing cards), which we all thoroughly enjoyed. I look back on it and realize now just what a bonding experience it was for us all. Anyhoo, one evening in the middle of a card game one of the Deacons from church pulled up in our driveway to pay a visit for some reason and Dad FREAKED OUT. He swept/grabbed all the cards from off the table and hid them in the refrigerator, of all places, before the Deacon could make it to the front door, which freaked me out. I'd never seen him be afraid to be himself in front of anyone but he did not want the church to know his family was playing cards together. I asked him about it later and he said "those are poker cards and I don't want them to think we are playing poker". Anyway, after I left that church so did he.
I will drink to that....deal me in!:laugh:
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