Lol, by 'savingly' you mean 'regenerationally', or born from Jerusalem aboveally', or 'born of Godally', right?
By 'means' you mean a soul winner, whether it's a parent or a Sunday School teacher or a preacher or a missionary or a co-worker, or a sermon, etc., that carries the Spirit to the elect, right?
In other words, you don't believe 'the Spirit where He willeth doth blow', He requires 'means' to carry Him.
Ok...you want to contend on this...we will:thumbsup:
I very much believe;
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit...
Do you believe it???
What i mean is...The Spirit brings sinners from death to life, enabling them to welcome the word as it is brought to them....by other persons, the word preached, prayers offered, prayers answered, correction of others, instruction of others, evangelists, missionaries, Christian workers...those are the normal means used by God .
Are you saying you do not see this in the book of Acts???
Paul was told...do not even begin to hold your peace FOR I HAVE MUCH people in this city. According to you...it was not necessary to preach because you suggest the SPIRIT could just do it all by HIMSELF.
The Spirit could and does do it all by Himself with elect infants dying in infancy, and elect persons who might be mental handicaps...but that is not the norm is it?
6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.
8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
9
Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.
11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Paul functions here as Ezkiels watchman, they resist , He tells them their blood is on their own head now....Paul was used as the watchman, God did not tell Paul/...hey Paul do not say anything, do not teach , or pray,...I have got this , No means are necessary....Did he?
No God used means all through Acts.....There will be no loss of life among you, but only of the ship...even if the man had to hang on to the broken pieces of the Ship.:wavey:
14 But not long after there arose against it a tempestuous wind, called Euroclydon.
15 And when the ship was caught, and could not bear up into the wind, we let her drive.
16 And running under a certain island which is called Clauda, we had much work to come by the boat:
17 Which when they had taken up, they used helps, undergirding the ship; and, fearing lest they should fall into the quicksands, strake sail, and so were driven.
18 And we being exceedingly tossed with a tempest, the next day they lightened the ship;
19 And the third day we cast out with our own hands the tackling of the ship.
20 And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope that we should be saved was then taken away.
21 But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in the midst of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss.
22 And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man's life among you, but of the ship.
23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,
24 Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar:
and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee.
25 Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me.
31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved
This is means KYRED
again;
34 Wherefore I pray you to
take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you.
even the broken boards were means;
43 But the centurion, willing to save Paul, kept them from their purpose; and commanded that they which could swim should cast themselves first into the sea, and get to land:
44 And the rest, some on boards,
and some on broken pieces of the ship. And so it came to pass, that they escaped all safe to land.