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Lordship Salvation? - Part Two
- Thread starter DeafPosttrib
- Start date
And your doctrine ignores that the eternal life that is being spoken of is coupled with sanctification which means works. So are you willing to say that eternal salvation is works based as well as faith based? And are you willing to say that eternal salvation is something that a person can not have until they die, because sanctification is a life-long process.
Now maybe we are both wrong, but you simply can not ignore the fact that eternal life is tied with sanctification. That's NOT talking about eternal salvation. This is being addressed to folks that already had that taken care of.
So how are you going to deal with that? It's there. It has to be dealt with.
Now maybe we are both wrong, but you simply can not ignore the fact that eternal life is tied with sanctification. That's NOT talking about eternal salvation. This is being addressed to folks that already had that taken care of.
So how are you going to deal with that? It's there. It has to be dealt with.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say anymore. But, it is clear in Romans 6:23 that death means eternal death.J. Jump said:
The wages of sin is eternal death, eternal separation from God (not just 1000 years). Even that one sin you say can go unforgiven at your physical death will be paid for by eternal death.
BUT.......the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Amy the verse which contains eternal life is linked to sanctification and the results of sanctification which comes from being free from sin and enslaved to God (works) is eternal life.
Works are being tied into this verse so there is no contextual way this can be talking about everlasting life. It simply can not be or you are going to have to say that everlasting life is obtained by faith plus works and the Bible crystal clear that is not how we receive the gift of everlasting life. That is simply done by faith.
The wages of sin is death. Death is talked about all over the Bible in relation to saved folks. If you want to save your life now you will lose it, but if you lose your life now you will find it. That is speaking of death now or death later and that is addressing saved individuals. And just to add to that the Greek word is the Greek word for soul. So you can lose your soul now and find it or you can save your soul now and lose it.
That has to do with works.
And to come full circle Romans 6:23 talks about the Lordship of Jesus the Christ. This eternal life comes through Jesus Christ "our" (the audience and Paul) Lord.
Again Lordship has to do with works.
Context simply points to this passage speaking to something other than everlasting life unless you are will to once again say that is obtained from faith and works.
Again Lordship has to do with works.
Context simply points to this passage speaking to something other than everlasting life unless you are will to once again say that is obtained from faith and works.
J, to be honest, I am just about worn out with this debate. You are not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. You will never convince me that a child of God will spend even 1 second in the same place that wicked unbelievers go when they die. I think it's time for me to just bow out and let you and others have it.
I did write down the scripture you gave me like I said I would. I'll be reading it later in my Bible.
See ya.
I did write down the scripture you gave me like I said I would. I'll be reading it later in my Bible.
See ya.
See this is what I don't understand. Why do you and others want us to keep showing you with Scripture that this doctrine is true when your mind is already made up? That simply doesn't make sense to me.
I have just shown you using your own Scripture that eternal life is tied into works, but all you have to say is that I'm not going to change your mind.
At every turn we have been able to show each of you in Scripture that this doctrine is true. The ONLY thing that we haven't been able to answer (and because Scripture itself does not address it) is how close can I get to the line without getting burned.
Amy I hope you do look at the Scripture and I hope you will continue to pursue these warnings to believers. You are a leg up on most in that you believe the warnings are in fact to believers.
I pray you will open your mind to God's Truth instead of shutting Him off before He has a chance.
JJump quote: "I have just shown you using your own Scripture that eternal life is tied into works."
False doctrine alert, false doctrine alert!
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
News bulletin- Words of :jesus: trump words of Jump.
False doctrine alert, false doctrine alert!
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
News bulletin- Words of :jesus: trump words of Jump.
Bad comedian alert, bad comedian alert! :tonofbricks:False doctrine alert, false doctrine alert!
So let's just see what the words of Christ actually say in this text you have brought up shall we?
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
So who is it that Jesus gives eternal life to? His sheep which hear His voice and not only do they hear, but what else do they do? FOLLOW! Ah yes that would be works my friends.
News bulletin -- Guess you aren't as familiar with the words of Christ as you think you are.
You totally overlooked the scripture in italics and dodged the point I was making to your quote. You said, "I have just shown you using your own Scripture that eternal life is tied into works."
Jesus said, "And I give unto them eternal life."
If something is given it is not earned, as you imply.:tonofbricks:
Next time pay attention to the post and don't get so angry about Christ's words trumping yours.:godisgood:
Jesus said, "And I give unto them eternal life."
If something is given it is not earned, as you imply.:tonofbricks:
Next time pay attention to the post and don't get so angry about Christ's words trumping yours.:godisgood:
Does this describe the kingdom salvation doctrine? J, James, HoG?
If a man departs this life with lighter faults, he is condemned to fire which burns away the lighter materials, and prepares the soul for the kingdom of God, where nothing defiled may enter. "For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (1 Corinthians 3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works.
If a man departs this life with lighter faults, he is condemned to fire which burns away the lighter materials, and prepares the soul for the kingdom of God, where nothing defiled may enter. "For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (1 Corinthians 3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works.
And you and cutter continue to miss who it was given to. It was given to followers (that works). Works people. That means NO ETERNAL SALVATION in CONTEXT. You all pick a single verse and in this case single phrase and then act like that is the only think that exists.
Following Christ is works.
So when you are "given" your paycheck on payday you didn't earn that huh?
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No it does not. This sounds like the Catholics purgatory. This NOT the gospel of the kingdom.
Notice the very opening sentence. This says the "lighter" material is are burned away to "prepare" a soul for the kingdom of God. Once we exit this life via death or the rapture there is no more chance for our soul regarding entrance into the kingdom. All of that is decided while here on the earth.