Yes...Jesus gave him the faith, either forgot or the centurion lost the faith that was given to him, Jesus found it and then suddenly remembered what great faith He gave him!
...and yet your view is the eisegetical one :laugh:
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Lordship Salvation volume 2
- Thread starter Alive in Christ
- Start date
- Status
...and yet your view is the eisegetical one :laugh:
preacher4truth
Active Member
It certainly is an eisegetical one, and yet, you're talking of the wrong passage here.
Philippians 1:29? His false paraphrase?
Pay attention and you might learn some truth.
Yeahhhhh.....I'm not explicitly seeing that the Centurion was saved, elect, regenerated, or whatever you are claiming.
You are attributing things to the passage that aren't even contained in it.
I'm not the one that is putting things into the text that aren't there. I see in the text where Jesus says He FOUND FAITH in the Centurion, and I see that you are saying that Jesus GAVE him faith, and saving faith at that! Do you often make stuff up?
preacher4truth
Active Member
I don't know that he was saved either, but if he was, he was elect.
You added to the text of Philippians 1:29 things that are not there, not me, but go ahead, continue to deceive yourself, what do I care?
Faith is the gift of God, from His Word. It's taught plainly in Scripture. Your paraphrase? Well, it's not the Word of God, nor the proper interpretation.
You've got Philipians 1:29 which may or may not say that faith is a gift. What else ya got?
Alive in Christ
New Member
Only if he chooses faith in Christ does he become one of the elect.
preacher4truth
Active Member
I don't have anything. I gave you other passages from Him.
Your paraphrase is a grave error.
Here is why we can't agree on the order of events of salvation.
Ask someone who is saved when they were saved and most will give a calendar date.
Some will say - at Calvary.
Some will say - from before the foundation of the world.
A few will even say salvation is not complete until the resurrection.
This is because there is no tense for God, He is eternal.
Time, space and matter are His creation which He made outside of time, space and matter there is no past, present or future for God only eternity.
Although He has chosen to enter the time continuum, it is not of His essential being.
He has no beginning, no end. No human being can comprehend that (Christ the only exception).
We look out from the windows of time and try to order and define the works that God has done in eternity. It isn't possible.
Someone has said that God created time to keep everything from happening all at once.
HankD
Ask someone who is saved when they were saved and most will give a calendar date.
Some will say - at Calvary.
Some will say - from before the foundation of the world.
A few will even say salvation is not complete until the resurrection.
This is because there is no tense for God, He is eternal.
Time, space and matter are His creation which He made outside of time, space and matter there is no past, present or future for God only eternity.
Although He has chosen to enter the time continuum, it is not of His essential being.
He has no beginning, no end. No human being can comprehend that (Christ the only exception).
We look out from the windows of time and try to order and define the works that God has done in eternity. It isn't possible.
NKJV Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.
Someone has said that God created time to keep everything from happening all at once.
HankD
Amazing on how some here can take clear teaching of the Bible and make it seem to say something else, Eh?
Phil.1:29 does nothing for you.
Over and over again (not just this passage) does Jesus say: "I have not found such faith," "And he marveled at his faith," Thy faith hath made thee whole," "According to thy faith..." Dozens of passages show that Jesus attributed faith as inherent to the individual who was an unbeliever. We all have faith. Jesus said that small children have faith. Faith is inherent in every person. It is the simple ability to believe.
What is important is not the ability to believe, but rather the object of what you believe. The Muslims have as the object of their belief, Allah. They will die and go to hell because of it. Some have as their object: money, family, business, other gods. If Christ is not the object of your faith your eternity will not be heaven. Christ is the only way to heaven. He must be the object of your faith.
Christ is the author and finisher of our faith
He is the object of our faith. Our faith will end when Christ comes again. There will be no need for faith at the coming of Christ. Why? We walk by faith and not by sight. When He comes we shall see him as he is, and have no need of faith. He is the author and finisher of our faith.
preacher4truth
Active Member
freeatlast
New Member
1. When I challenge you to find the doctrine of repentance as it relates to the gospel in the epistles only you mock, saying why should we be confined to the epistles.
2. Now when you are challenged with Christ confronting different individuals concerning their faith you immediately go to the epistles. Why?
You are not very consistent in your approach to Scripture.
3. Faith is nowhere seen as a gift to the unregenerate. Why do you take the verse out of its context? Why did you not quote the entire verse?
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; (Philippians 1:29)
--If faith is given to unbelievers then so is suffering for Christ given to unbelievers. You can't have one without the other. Your interpretation is way off. That is not what the verse is teaching.
First, he is writing his epistle to the Philippian believers, saints in Christ.
Second, he is speaking of privileges. It was a privilege for them to believe on Christ. But the privilege didn't stop there. It was God's will also for them to have the privilege to suffer for his sake. Yes, suffering was to be looked upon as a privilege--not just salvation by faith, but also suffering for his sake.
--That is the meaning of the verse that you so like to take out of context.
I have no argument with Romans 10:17, and never did. It is what I have been preaching all along. Faith isn't a gift, it comes from hearing the word of God. Without the Word of God there can be no faith, but that does not make faith a gift.
quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
preacher4truth
Active Member
You've never challenged me. This is a dream of yours that remains unfulfilled. Try realistic goals instead.
I'm confined to the entire Word of God, not to only the cherry-picked texts you embrace.
I've never mocked. No need to slander. You must be losing again.
Everything you say above shows forth your chronic misunderstanding of the Scriptures.
On Romans 10:17? In one thread you argued the context was not salvific. Yet in another thread, at the same time, you argued the text was in fact salvific. I found your double standard, called you on it and you have been eating a shut it sammich since. So don't go there, you've been embarassed there in the past.
What next? I've broken the BB rules?????
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally Posted by DHK
Phil.1:29 does nothing for you.
Over and over again (not just this passage) does Jesus say: "I have not found such faith," "And he marveled at his faith," Thy faith hath made thee whole," "According to thy faith..." Dozens of passages show that Jesus attributed faith as inherent to the individual who was an unbeliever. We all have faith. Jesus said that small children have faith. Faith is inherent in every person. It is the simple ability to believe.
I didn't misunderstand anything.
"Unless you have faith as a child" What is there to misunderstand? Children have faith. He was comparing the type of faith that adults need to receive Christ to that of a child--simple child-like faith. Children have simple, child-like faith in their parents. We must have that same kind of faith in Christ--the object of our faith. It is the object of the faith that is important. The nature of the faith is the same. Faith is faith. It is inherent in every person. God does not give spiritual gifts to unsaved people.
If you say that faith does not save you have a problem with Scripture which clearly says that we are saved by faith. What do you do with:
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
Did you write sola fide out of your vocabulary???
What is why? Where is the evidence that God gives to the natural man the gift of faith, a spiritual gift, the fruit of the Spirit. IMO this is borderline heresy. God does not give spiritual gifts to unsaved individuals. Did he also give them the gifts of healing, miracles, etc., Where does it teach that God gives spiritual gifts to the unsaved. This is a most ridiculous philosophy that I have ever heard from the Calvinists. Faith is not a gift to the unsaved. It never was
If the natural man cannot respond to God in any way then why does God give commands for him to respond:
Acts 17:30
God commands all men everywhere to repent.
The command (to the unsaved everywhere) is to repent.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Now all of a sudden out of nowhere you agree to repentance.
Interesting.
In the past you've argued since it is not in the NT epistles (which is erroneous prattle) that it is not part of the Gospel now nor necessary.
It's in the epistles. It's also the mandate of the Scriptures altogether. Stop your cherry-picking.
You're coming along slowly. Well, at least it looks that way.
Last edited by a moderator:
I have never said that repentance is not required. I have said that it is not taught in the epistles. The reason for that is that repentance is closely tied with faith. Repentance is the flip side of faith. You can't have one without the other.
Think of it. If "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," then what does that mean? Inherent in the word "call" is believe, have faith. When one puts their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ he shall be saved.
What is repentance? Repentance is a change of mind in respect to one's attitude toward God. Once a person was rebellious toward God. He repented. Now he is submissive to the will of God. That is repentance.
That is exactly what happens when one puts their faith in Christ. His life changes. Christ becomes Lord of his life. His old life is now changed. He has a new life, a new master. You see: faith and repentance are two sides of one coin. They go together. I never denied repentance. I said it is not taught in the epistles, because it doesn't have to be. Biblical faith encompasses repentance.
freeatlast
New Member
- Status