Lordship salvation vs Easy believeism

[JamesL]

Uh I did not say anyone should have to work.

Uh, you didn't use the word "work", but what you described is what scripture calls work.

..... Those who believe that one must call on and confess Jesus as both Lord and Savior with the understanding that he is now the ruler of our lives and have the intent to live by that......

How do you not see human effort there?

Please don't try to talk past me, as you did in the previous post. I'd rather not have to spend 15 posts trying to get a straight answer

 

[Revmitchell]

Give me a break Lordship Salvation did no such thing. The average church was largely unaffected by any debate over it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Those who believe "one must" are spreading a false gospel, plain and simple. That's what makes it a works salvation. You, you, you, you.

The cross of Christ is treated as some magical, superstitious voodoo that is accessed by incantation, ritual, and servitude

But what is written?

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by His mercy He saved us; by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit.

To the one who doe not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith I credited as righteousness

Wow James, you are there brother. This is the very crux of the monergistic & synergistic faith. There are basically only two alternatives. If humans contribute any essential part towards their salvation, then they effectively become their own Savior's. Its Sola Gratia / Grace alone.....or it is tempted to slip the human element back into the equation....and please my 5p brothers, recognize that for what it is....ie "synergism " or in laymens terms....the belief that we work together with God to accomplish & apply our salvation. And this is fatal to any sound doctrine of salvation, for it has the inevitable result of increasing the place of man and diminishing the glory of God in salvation.

I'm done with this subject matter.

 

[JamesL]

Good post EWF.

I'm gonna tone down the rhetoric now

 

[Deacon]

...from adult bible study this morning as we study "Our Identity in Christ",
the next four sessions will deal with the implications of our identity with a quick tour doing the Ephesians walk.

"Our works are not the root of our salvation but the fruit of our salvation."

Rob

 

[convicted1]

...from adult bible study this morning as we study "Our Identity in Christ",
the next four sessions will deal with the implications of our identity with a quick tour doing the Ephesians walk.

"Our works are not the root of our salvation but the fruit of our salvation."

Rob

Amen. Our works are our fruit...

 

[Jedi Knight]

Ok well you miss the point. Those who believe that one must call on and confess Jesus as both Lord and Savior with the understanding that he is now the ruler of our lives and have the intent to live by that did not come up with the term LS.

It was created by those who oppose that doctrine and used as a pejorative. Your issue is with those who oppose it not with those who hold to it.

Bingo!:thumbsup:

 

[jbh28]

Then why is it necessary to readdress the issue after salvation? Why is there a different name than salvation, ie LS. When someone comes to Christ by grace though faith, the work on the cross is enough or sufficient to complete the process. Everything needed from justification to glorification is there. We do not need a part 2 step added called LS. I am well aware of the relationship between faith, works and salvation. It is called the book of James. If it is not a works gospel, then it assumes the first salvation was not sufficient. The level of fruits and works after salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit, and not the opinion of others or the will of the individual. Pharisees memorized a bunch of rules and tried to keep them with their own self will. The term LS should have never been invented by man.

The problem with terms that we use is that sometimes we only look at the term and not the definition. You are right in much of what you said here. You made a very good key point when you said "the works after salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit." Very true. That's why it's evidence of salvation because you have the Spirit in you.

It is really not rocket science. Works before salvation is like filthy rags to God. No works after salvation and faith is dead. There are those Christians (ie Heb 6:1-3) that have not matured and the writer tells them it is time to move on. They are called babes in Christ and no doubt they have not produced much fruit, the that is not the norm. The norm is after salvation growth in Christ grows and so does fruit or works. It is under the timing and power of the Holy Spirit, not man's opinion or what someone expects the level of behavior and fruits to be at a given point in time. It is all of God, nothing of man. The term LS is actually redundant. Its meaning is incorporated in the original meaning of salvation.

Not going to argue over terms since they are man made. I agree with you that it's all the Holy Spirit.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

...from adult bible study this morning as we study "Our Identity in Christ",
the next four sessions will deal with the implications of our identity with a quick tour doing the Ephesians walk.

"Our works are not the root of our salvation but the fruit of our salvation."

Rob

Rrrrrriiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhtttttttt!

 

[Reformed]

"Our works are not the root of our salvation but the fruit of our salvation."

Quite right.

 

[Yeshua1]

So do you believe in Lordship salvation or Easy believeism or both? Please explain why or why not.

We are saved by Grace alone, thru faith alone, and that means that we have been fully justified before Holy God right at time of Conversion, as "easy believers" hold to rightly, but it is also true that saving faith will result in good works and some measure of a changed lifestyle and opinions towards sinning, as LS advocate!

 

[Jedi Knight]

We are saved by Grace alone, thru faith alone, and that means that we have been fully justified before Holy God right at time of Conversion, as "easy believers" hold to rightly, but it is also true that saving faith will result in good works and some measure of a changed lifestyle and opinions towards sinning, as LS advocate!

You believe in whom? The LORD Jesus.....Boss! Easy to believe BUT it results in obedience AKA good works. The fear of the LORD is the beginning....

 

[Yeshua1]

You believe in whom? The LORD Jesus.....Boss! Easy to believe BUT it results in obedience AKA good works. The fear of the LORD is the beginning....

And those works are the result of it being God to work and to will in our lives now that he changed us, adopted us into the Kingdom of Jesus...

Know LS means well, but the problem is that the extreme wing of that teaching leads us to be saved by keeping the law fully, just as the extreme branch of "faith alone" leads us to having many who profess and yet do not possess Jesus!