Lordship Salvation?

I know what she said. What did she mean, though? That God would be unjust if He didn't offer it to all? If so, then that's still obligation. If not, then we have to go down yet another line of reasoning on which we will not agree...

As a wise forum participant pointed out with respect to "HAVING to offer it", where did I say you don't need faith?

 

Faith is the substance, evidence of what's hoped for and not seen. Sounds like free will faith to me, and not this "gift" of faith given to the elect to give back that calvinism needs.

 

Be blessed webdog. I'm not going to argue with you.

 

WB : I know for a fact that many here on the BB think God has been under obligation to "offer salvation [grace] to all." They do think it is a matter of justice . If the message of the Gospel doesn't sound forth to everyone -- then He is an unjust God . Justice is fairness . But God's mercy is under no obligation . Folks here confuse these things often . Mercy and justice are two distinct categories .

 

I think what they are referring to is the punishment associated without offering grace, not offering grace in itself.

 

More to Read

Hi JRG:

Here are two more articles you can read on the Lordship interpretation of the Gospel.

A Question Left Unanswered

Lordship Salvation's "Barter" System

Feel free to reply with any questions/commmets at my site or here.


Lou

 

Calvinism's Irresistible Grace

Calvinism teaches that the Holy Spirit extends a special inward calling, but only to those elected to salvation. Through this calling the sinner is irresistibly drawn to Christ and the Spirit causes the sinner to cooperate. The lost man may have no desire for Christ, no interest in the claims of the gospel, but he has no choice in the matter. Because he has been unconditionally elected for salvation the Spirit puts the choice in his mind, and compels him to respond to the gospel invitation. This irresistible grace cannot be rejected and does not depend on man’s cooperation.


LM

 

False Dilemma

IFB:

Well said. And both sides use the "false dilemma" argumentation to bolster their case. This is in my book:

LM

 

The Calvinist belierves man can't express repentance or faith, can't particpate in his own salvation in any way, shape or form. Can't respond to the Gospel at all.

The Calvinist believes lost man must first be regenerated, i.e. born again by the Spirit of God first, and only after that has taken place can he express repentance and faith in Christ.

This flows from the 'T' in their T-U-L-I-P "Total Inability."

For more read


LM

 

believe it or not, this debate is closely tied with the Free will debates. If you hold to free will theology, Lordship salvation will be equated with works salvation. If you hold to Calvinistic theology, Lordship salvation will be the natural outworking of God's grace on a persons life.

 

I agree. But that's why I believe it is tied more closely with free-willism. Assuming it is true (I am not arguing for or against), then with Calvinism the natural outworking of God's grace is only a concern AFTER you are already saved. You aren't saved by Lordship, so it would be a misnomer to call it Lordship Salvation.

With free-willism, it becomes part of the magical sinner's prayer and a requirement for being saved. In this case, it is properly called Lordship Salvation.

 

Strawman. I believe in free will, and I don't believe in a "magical sinners prayer". The thief on the cross said no "magical sinners prayer" and was saved. It's the heart, not the words that matter.

 

This is a good summary of so-called Lordship Salvation.

Luk 9:23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Luk 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
Luk 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father's, and of the holy angels.

Christ didn't ask anyone to believe that he existed. Even the demons do that. He asked them to "Come and follow Me." If you think that's works based salvation so be it.

 

One doesn't follow Christ unless one has faith first. LS teaches the following of Christ and faith happen BEFORE one is saved. Faith is justification. Following Christ is sanctification, not justification.

 

How does that view relate to the story of the rich young ruler who had faith but wasn't willing to make Christ Lord of his life?

 

The context of the rich young ruler is not one of eternal salvation. The context in view is inheritance. He asks about inheriting the kingdom. That is only available to members of the family. He was eternally saved and was curious about his inheritance.

 

He obviously didn't have faith in Christ...or he would have followed.

 

Really? Then why did he ask Jesus "what must I do to inherit eternal life?

Luke 18:18
18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Luke 18
23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

Eternal life=kingdom of God

They are one and the same.

 

Owned.

.....

 

Yes.

You answered your own question.

And here's your answer. The whole context is the kingdom. The kingdom of God is equated to the kingdom of the heavens in Matthew. Both of these are speaking of the coming 1,000-year earthly kingdom of The Christ.

Again eternal salvation is not a matter of inheritance.

Once again this just proves that Christendom has equated everything in Scripture that speaks of faith, salvation, eternal life, believe, etc. to eternal salvation. And that is simply not the case.

Another way that we see this is not a context of everlasting life is because he wasn't told to believe he was told to "do" something. This is a works context. Everlasting life is not received by what we do, but by what we believe.

He had faith enough to go and inquire of the person that had the answers. He just didn't want to do what he was told to do. He had faith, because he said he had been following the commandments since he was a child.

The issue is he wanted to live "his" life not live the life the Master had for him.

That's not everlasting life that is discipleship. Discipleship is only for the eternally saved.