When someone says "No, I'm not a Christian", I think we can pretty safely say that they are lost.
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Lost persons participating in music program
- Thread starter Berean
- Start date
When someone says "No, I'm not a Christian", I think we can pretty safely say that they are lost.
Why would any church have such a low standard of someone just being a Christian to lead singing? Leading is leadership which means that person makes disciples. Leaders must not just perform a service but be able to lead others to do the work of ministry.
A few months ago I spent some time in a church talking with a few staff members. Every ministry leader in that church is required to lead teams and teach the people how to do ministry. If they are not leading teams they will be asked to leave. It is not a position or job but a responsibility. During my time there I spoke with three staff members and everyone of them could answer my questions about discipleship. I also saw ministry all around me. For example: a young man came up to an older gentleman at an information booth. Within a few minutes the young man began to cry and the older man stepped from behind the booth to speak with the young man for about an hour. The older man was a leader and knew how to make disciples. He was already equipped to help the young man. Leaders must be equipped to help people who come their way and to be also equipping others to do the work of ministry.
A few months ago I spent some time in a church talking with a few staff members. Every ministry leader in that church is required to lead teams and teach the people how to do ministry. If they are not leading teams they will be asked to leave. It is not a position or job but a responsibility. During my time there I spoke with three staff members and everyone of them could answer my questions about discipleship. I also saw ministry all around me. For example: a young man came up to an older gentleman at an information booth. Within a few minutes the young man began to cry and the older man stepped from behind the booth to speak with the young man for about an hour. The older man was a leader and knew how to make disciples. He was already equipped to help the young man. Leaders must be equipped to help people who come their way and to be also equipping others to do the work of ministry.
There is a difference between participating and leading the ministry.
Sure there is. And the topic is about lost people participating, not leading. So should lost people be allowed to participate? But not lead?
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Again, no.
Dead threads are like dead horses -- they can't be ridden, beaten or trained to any effect.
Allow me to participate in the pointless resurrection - by saying that was hilarious. LOL
quantumfaith
Active Member
Bingo gb. That is a point that I tried to highlight much earlier. In "my church" we allow participants (non-believers) to be part of the band. We do have limitations....I don't know them all....but I do know that in order to sing or have a microphone you must be a confessed believer.
Just doing my part to strike additional blows, much like thisnumber.
There are those who will name themselves as believers but I have never seen one who makes disciples walk away from the faith.
Any church that does not believe in having non-believers participate in any music programs should never have any children's and youth programs.
What's the difference between singing and playing a guitar other than the obvious? Why does one require salvation and the other not?
quantumfaith
Active Member
I can only give what I think is the reason....as I am not a staff member or elder. I "think" that one singing or commenting such as introducing the baptism or leading in prayer etc. would "obviously" be required to be a believer. It is, in a small part "leading" in worship.
I will say again, I am happy and comfortable with our "policy", particularly after having witnessed a few band members become a member of the family of faith by professing Christ and following in baptism.
I have come to the conclusion that the best test of one being a believer is shown in the fruit they produce. I have never seen one who make disciples of Jesus ever leave the faith. Yet, I have seen some who say they are believers leave the faith.
The last time I saw someone leave the faith was one I met with for awhile. I could tell he was not teachable and seemed to not listen to anything I said. He is also the son of a SBC pastor and preached and taught Sunday School in his dad's church. After a few weeks he decided that he did not want to meet with me any more. He knew I began to catch into him and was not going to be given any position in the church until he proved himself by making disciples. He did not make any disciples and yet wanted to teach and preach. eventually he posted on his blog that God does not exist.
The last time I saw someone leave the faith was one I met with for awhile. I could tell he was not teachable and seemed to not listen to anything I said. He is also the son of a SBC pastor and preached and taught Sunday School in his dad's church. After a few weeks he decided that he did not want to meet with me any more. He knew I began to catch into him and was not going to be given any position in the church until he proved himself by making disciples. He did not make any disciples and yet wanted to teach and preach. eventually he posted on his blog that God does not exist.
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convicted1
Guest
To add to this post, who's to say the music leader is a professed believer, but has a double life outside of church? Just because someone states they're a believer, doesn't make them one.
Uh no we do not decide who is lost but we do determine, based on scripture, who is lost and who is saved where church membership and service is concerned.
That is exactly the reasoin why I do not let nominal Christians lead. Only those who make disciples are qualified leaders.
Seeking the lost to attend is good, but no church should even allow a member who is not showing proof of obediance and in good standing to serve the church much less someone who is known to be lost. The weakest link of a chain determins the total streangth of that chain. A little leaven, leavens the whole lump.
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Why would any church ask an unbeliever to join in leading in worship? Music is part of our worship whether it's the choir singing, playing an instrument or congregational singing. An unbeliever wouldn't be leading in the music to worship God, so he has no business being there. We should be sharing he gospel to him instead. Show him love. Not compromising by letting him perform.